KNOWS NOTES – FITTING TUBELESS ROAD TIRES
The adoption of tubeless road tires and wheels for many cycling enthusiasts has not been easy.
Personally, I love the performance benefits tubeless brings me. More comfortable rides, better handling, lower rolling resistance, and almost no flats top my list. At the same time, I know there are many issues that cause some of you to come to hate tubeless and never know any of its benefits.
From what I can tell, loving or hating tubeless – and I don’t know many people who fall in between – is largely determined by your experience installing and maintaining tubeless road tires.
If you can get comfortable setting up and running the right combination of tubeless road tires and wheels, then you’ll love the benefits road tubeless gives you. If you can’t, nothing will overcome the dislike you develop trying to adapt to tubeless or the fear of dealing with a tubeless flat out on the road.
Yes, we can blame the industry for “hyping” technology that’s not ready for roadie time without first establishing standards. The reality, however, is that “standards” in the cycling world and in many other industries only come after years of adoption, if at all, are usually created in rather messy ways.
When one or two companies have a dominant share of the business, they use their market muscle to set the standard for what is acceptable design, performance, safety and other levels that smaller players follow. They will often dominate the standards issuing bodies or see those bodies adopt whatever levels they set. Helmet safety standards are a shameful example of this.
If there are no dominant players and no leaders appear to be emerging, years of negotiation between these competing players typically take place as part of the standards-setting committees they sit on. They are forced to work together to agree to some standards they can all meet to grow their business and have their individual investments pay off. This is what goes on in the cycling tire and wheelset market.
There are about a dozen sizeable companies making tubeless-ready road wheelsets and nearly as many, mostly different companies making tubeless road tires. So, we’ve got two fragmented sets of players that depend on each other to some degree for the ability to bring tubeless love (or hate) to road cycling enthusiasts.
None of these companies are in a position to dictate standards. So the discussions at cycling’s ISO and ETRTO standard’s setting committees continue at a speed that’s been way behind what is now two or three generations of new road tubeless wheelsets and tires.
It does me little good to blame the industry or wait for them to set (and follow) standards through these organizations. My goal, as it says at the top of every page of this site, is to figure out “What Cycling Gear to Get Next and Where to Get It” and share that with you.
The Challenge
My recent exchange with Alan, an In The Know Cycling reader, set me out on one of those “figure it out” challenges after he filed the following comment on my post The Best Tubeless Tires.
I found it impossible to mount the Conti 5000 TL on Mavic Kysirium Elite UST wheels. My local bike shop techies who are extremely experienced and professional failed as well. Even though a Continental rep at RideLondon registration in August assured me that they would fit, I have now received a message from Continental stating that the tyre and wheel are incompatible!
Luckily my supplier has agreed to refund on the unopened tyre but not the attempted mounting one. So I am now left with an expensive tyre of no use to me and non-refundable; thanks Continental.
I didn’t immediately approve Alan’s comment (all first-time posters have to go through “moderation”). I was surprised by it (I’ll explain why below), wanted to learn more about his experience, and then add an informed response to his comment.
Was this incompatibility Conti’s fault, as Alan’s comment concluded? The Mavic UST or Universal System Tubeless had been heralded by Mavic and the cycling industry press as “easier to use and safer than existing tubeless systems” when it was introduced in 2017.
While not dominant in the wheelset industry anymore, certainly Mavic is well respected for the volume and quality of wheelsets they build, if not for their technology leadership. They were clearly attempting to set a standard with UST and hoped other wheelset and tire companies would follow
Further, this Conti tire had already been flagged by ENVE as one that shouldn’t be used with their hookless rimmed SES 4.5 AR and 3.4 AR disc wheels.
The Continental Grand Prix 5000 TL was the tire I had recommended as the best tubeless tire. Maybe I had it wrong? If so, I wanted to know that and get the word out to all readers.
I asked Alan to tell me more about the problems he’d had. He sent me the following helpful background about his experience and the photo you see at the top of this post.
I spent a hour at my local bike shop a couple of days ago trying to fit the tyre. I had already had several goes myself using the stretching the slack and finishing at the valve, also with tyre levers. The chaps at the shop are much stronger and have fitted many more tyres as me but hit the same problems as me. The tyres bead is far too tight and the best achieved as to have about 6” of rim left to go on.
He also sent me a copy of the email he’d received from the Continental Bicycle Tyres UK rep.
Hi Alan, If you could return them to your place of purchase for a refund, that
particular wheelset will only run with mavic ust tyres, this is down to
mavic’s design that does not comply with the etrto standard and nothing we
can do about it. Kind Regards, Rich
Oh, this was getting ugly, at least by polite British norms. Conti blaming Mavic for not living up to ETRTO standards? Yet Mavic is one of the chief funders of the ETRTO bicycle standards section and cites ETRTO in the size of all of their rims, including Alan’s Ksyrium Elite UST wheels (“ETRTO size: 622x17TC ROAD”).
This was getting uncomfortable for me. See, in addition to recommending the Continental Grand Prix 5000 TL, I had also picked the Mavic Ksyrium Elite UST wheels as the Best Value in my Best Road Disc Wheelset Upgrades post and had called the ENVE 4.5 AR Disc wheelset the Best Performer in my Best Carbon Disc Wheelset post.
How could I recommend all of these if they didn’t work together?
Related: Click to read my latest review of The Best Tubeless Tires
The (Second) Experiment
I reached out to my friend Don who had a set of the same Mavic Ksyrium Elite UST wheels that Alan was struggling with. Don had come to hate tubeless and had given up on these wheels. He lent me his front wheel. (His back wheel had been trashed after he hit a pothole while riding at low pressure).
I also asked Alan if he was using a 25C size Conti tire to make sure I had the same combination he and his shop had tried to mount and that the Conti rep said were incompatible. His response added more context:
Hi Steve, Yes 25c tyres. I use Conti 4000 clinchers on my Zipp 303s and I am a big fan of their durability, puncture-resistance and grip. That’s why I wanted to use the 5000 on my Mavics. I had no confidence riding on the supplied Mavic tyres’ grip, especially after a slide off on a bend that the Conti’s would have handled easily.
I am hoping that I can find an alternative such as Vittoria or Specialised that can fit these wheels. My local bike shop will help me with this and their fitting so should avoid wasting money on other no hopers!
Many thanks.
Cheers,
Alan
This got me thinking. Why don’t I do an installation test with a few different tires and wheels, including the ones Alan had tried, and see what happens. I did a similar experiment in my first review of the best tubeless tires that had included the Mavic Comete UST wheelset, a deeper, wider carbon one and the same Yksion Pro UST tubeless tire that came with Alan’s Ksyrium Elite UST wheelset.
During that first experiment, I had successfully if not easily mounted three other tubeless road tires – the original 25C Schwalbe Pro One, a 28C Maxxis Padrone TR, and Zipp’s Tangente Speed RT25 (25C) along with the much-adored Conti GP 4000 tubed clincher on the Comete UST rim.
When I reviewed the all-around, carbon Mavic Cosmic Pro SL UST wheelset (here), I had also successfully mounted and tested that wheelset with the Zipp Tangente Speed RT25 (tubeless) and the Conti GP 4000 (tubed) tires.
For this experiment of the Mavic Ksyrium Elite UST wheelset that Alan had tried to mount the Conti GP 5000 TL on, I grabbed both a new and used 25C size Conti GP5000 TL to try and a Zipp Tangente Speed RT25 tire that I had mounted successfully on the other UST wheels.
I also pulled out new 25C and used 28C sizes of the latest generation Schwalbe Pro One TLE (“Tubeless Easy”) tire that recently replaced the first generation Pro One tubeless which had been so popular. The Schwalbe rep had told me that the tire had been build to the emerging, yet still unofficial ISO/ETRTO standard for tubeless road tires.
Finally, to make this even more fun, I added a Zipp 303 NSW disc wheel that I had used in the earlier experiment and a HED Vanquish 4 wheel from a set I reviewed this summer. Both of these wheels and other all-arounds are compared in my Best Carbon Disc Wheelset post.
To briefly conclude an already too long story,
- Other than the Yksion Pro UST tire that Mavic supplies with each UST wheelset, I couldn’t mount any of the tires from Zipp, Continental or Schwalbe on the Mavic Ksyrium Elite UST wheel.
- All the tires, including the Yksion Pro UST, mounted rather easily on the HED and Zipp wheels.
When I say “I couldn’t mount”, I’m talking about the kind of mounting Alan and I attempted and that most enthusiasts would try in our own workshops when setting up a new set of tires or out on the road should we ever need to remount a tire after putting a tube in to account for an unsealable tire cut.
And when I say “mounted rather easily”, I’m talking about mounting the tire by hand within 30 seconds for most and 2 minutes with the aid of a tire lever at one spot on the rim for the Conti GP 5000 TL.
Interestingly, the Yksion Pro UST mounted within 30 seconds with no lever on the Zipp and HED wheels but it took me 2 minutes with the aid of a tire lever at one spot on the rim to get it on the Mavic Kysrium Elite UST wheel that it’s made for.
The Explanation
So why could I not get any tire other than the Yksion Pro UST on the Mavic Kysrium Elite UST while I could mount tires from several other brands on the Mavic Comete UST and Mavic Cosmic Pro SL UST wheels?
I don’t do science but I do do observation and deduction. And if you think that my use of the words “do do” before observation and deduction suggests this is all a bunch of crap, well I’m sorry. I’m generally skeptical of the claims I hear from cycling industry companies about how great their technology and products are so I’m left to do these kinds of experiments to figure things out.
Here’s how I explain the results of this experiment.
Wider rims making mounting tires easier – The Mavic Kysrium Elite UST wheelset has an inside rim width measured across the rim hooks of 16.7 mm. The other wheels in the experiment had inside rim widths ranging from 19 to 21 mm. In the case of all the rims tested, I clearly observed that the wider the rim, the wider the channel in the center of the rim.
The Mavic rim channel measured about 8.5 mm wide from edge to edge. The HED rim channel was nearly twice as wide at 16mm.
The HED Vanquish 4 wheelset has a rim channel width nearly double that of the Mavic Kysrium Elite UST
With a wider channel, more of the second bead of the tire is going to stay in the channel alongside the first as you mount it than it would with a narrower channel. The channel depth effectively reduces the tire rim’s circumference by enough to make mounting a modern tire where both beads can fit in that channel pretty easy. Without a channel or without being able to get that second bead into the channel, you’re not likely to be able to mount your tire at all.
Wider tire beads make mounting tires harder – The Continental Grand Prix 5000 TL’s bead is clearly the widest of the four tires tested. It measures about 4mm while the Zipp and Schwalbe (about 3.3mm) and Yksion (2.9mm) are narrower.
The bead width, stiffness, and profile of each tire are different, though it’s hard to know how big an effect this has in mounting
This is likely why it took me a bit longer and required a lever for me to mount the Conti than the others on the wheels with the wider channel. It may also explain in part why the Yksion went on the Kysrium Elite whereas the others couldn’t. I say “likely” and “in part” because, while I can’t quantify it, each tire’s bead stiffness and profile in addition to their widths seem different enough to have some effect on how easy or hard the mounting was. At least that’s what my thumbs were telling me.
I don’t think, however, that the bead width, stiffness or profile was as big a contributor to mounting as was the rim channel width. And, I would suspect the bead design is driven by getting the tire to seal and stay in place once on the rim than getting it on that rim in the first place.
Wheelset depth, tire size, tire age all matter little – Shouldn’t it be easier to get the same tire on a shallower rim as it doesn’t have as far to go over the edge of the rim? Shouldn’t a wider tire or an older one be easier to mount on the same rim because they have more slack either because of their size or being a bit stretched out due to their age?
Apparently not. Rim beds and channels typically sit at about the same depth relative to the top of the rim wall regardless of rim’s overall depth. And size or age doesn’t appear to make for any more room or stretch.
A UST designation is not important, at least to the ability to mount a tire – Despite Mavic’s UST claims, I haven’t found any significant difference mounting UST vs. non-UST tires on UST rims with the exception of the Ksyrium Elite UST rim and UST tire combination. While we can debate some of the other claimed benefits of UST, making mounting easier wasn’t a significant or even noticeable benefit of UST in my experiments. In my first experiment, I actually found it took longer and more tire levering to mount both the UST tire and non-UST tires on the Comete UST wheel than it did to put them on the Zipp.
Either way, to Alan and the rest of you that own the Ksyrium Elite UST wheelset, I would suspect the Vittoria or Specialized or other current 25C tubeless road tires may not easily fit on your wheels.
That said, I don’t think the Yksion Pro UST tires are bad. In my ride testing, I found they were are a big improvement over the prior generation of non-UST Yksion tires.
What Else Matters
While mounting a tubeless tire is a make or break consideration to even consider tubeless, if we were to choose between tires based on this alone we’d be missing a lot about what makes some tubeless tires better for you than others.
There other installation considerations – how easily does a tire inflate on the rim, how well does it seal, how long does it hold air? I answer these questions in the experiment section of the tubeless tire review I’ve referred and provided a link to above.
You’ll also find explanations of the five performance criteria that matter most in choosing between tubeless road tires in that review. In no particular order, they are
- Rolling resistance
- Puncture resistance
- Road feel
- Aerodynamics
- Durability
And then, of course, there are price differences between tubeless tires that will help you choose between them.
But, if we were to choose only between tubeless road tires for the above reasons and not consider how well a tire works with your wheelset together, that would be a big mistake as Alan and I, unfortunately, found out.
Beyond the difficulty of mounting a tire, how well the tire bead works with the rim hook determines how well it seals and holds air. And, as I mentioned earlier, some tubeless tires aren’t recommended for use with certain hookless rimmed wheels.
You should also pick your tubeless tire size knowing your rim width based on whether you prioritize for comfort, handling or aerodynamics or some combination of them. I wrote this post about that subject for tubed clincher tires a few years ago but it applies equally well for tubeless ones.
Recommending Tubeless Road Tires and Wheels
Some of you may be wondering: How can you recommend a tire like the Conti GP 5000 TL and wheels like the Mavic Ksyrium Elite UST or ENVE 4.5 AR that don’t work together?
Well, I’m recommending specific tires and wheels separately rather than in combination. I have also written, as in the case I mentioned just above, about the importance of considering tires and wheels together and given you some sizing if not product recommendations on those combinations based on your priorities.
In the same way, I’ve also recommended how to choose what type of wheels you should consider (e.g. upgrade alloy, carbon all around, aero, etc.) based on your riding profile, goals, and budget. You can see that post here.
All of that said, I know there are some tubeless tires and wheels that don’t work together. While I can’t check out every or even most combinations, I will go back through my tubeless tire review and add some specific recommendations about which tires I know don’t work with specific wheels or categories of wheels.
Hopefully, that will help those of you like Alan avoid the hassle he’s gone through and make better decisions from the start.
Share Your Experience
To help me and your fellow road cycling enthusiasts with this, I’d love to read about your experiences installing and maintaining tubeless road tires. You can use the comment section below to tell us what’s worked or not worked for you.
Answers to these kinds of questions would be great.
- What tubeless-ready wheels and tires do you use?
- How long did it take you and what techniques did you use to get your tires on your wheels?
- Did they seal with a track pump or did you use a compressor?
- How much sealant do you put in? How much pressure do you lose between rides?
- What kind of sealant do you use? How often do you top off or replace your sealant?
- Have you had a puncture that didn’t seal on the road? How did you deal with it?
- Do you love or hate tubeless? Why?
And lastly, if you haven’t tried tubeless yet but are thinking about it, tell me what questions you need to be answered to help you make a decision.
* * * *
That’s it for now. Thanks for reading and supporting the site. To keep in touch with what I’m posting and your fellow roadies are commenting on, use the popup form to get an email when new posts come out and the icons below to follow me.
Thanks and enjoy your riding safely.
In The Know Cycling is ad-free, subscription-free, and reader-supported. If you want to help keep it rolling without any added cost to you, buy your gear and kit after clicking the store links on the site. When you do, we may earn an affiliate commission that will help me cover the expenses to create and publish our independent, comprehensive, and comparative reviews. Thank you, Steve. Learn more.
This mirrors my experience when Mavic introduced their UST system on MTB. About 15 years I was on an away trip to Afan forest when in a descent I had a side wall puncture that resulted in a flat and no sealent.
A tyre boot and replacement tube as my only option.
In the forest and in my own at that point I spent over an hour trying to first get the tyre off and then installing the tyre back on. I couldn’t, eventually my friends found m e and several of them tried to fit the tyre and failed.
It was a long way back to civilisation. A local shop got me a new tyre, stretched and installed.
From that day forward I vowed never to use tubeless again and I’ve maintained that since I switched to the road about 10 years ago.
Given the variables at play here I’m yet to be convinced with Tubeless. I’ve seen many examples in club runs with the poor newbie having their first side wall cut in a tubeless tyres and to cut short their ride as they couldn’t even fit the tyre off.
I’ve settled on a routine of putting new set of tyres and inner tubes on my bikes at least once a year and more when required. This alone significantly reduces the number of punctures and I tend to find new rubber improves grip and confidence, I average about 8000 miles a year and this year I’ve had 4 punctures, which I can live with in the knowledge that I can easily replace them roadside and get home.
Maybe my priorities have changed over the years but as I find myself riding alone sometimes, being self sufficient is high in my priorities.
Also I am able to run lowish pressures with a tubed setup 70psi front 75 psi rear ( although I weigh about 64 kg) without pinch punctures..
So I’m staying tubed for the next few years to keep my options with regards to tyre and wheel combination choice.
Thanks for your useful and detailed article. I write to share my experience.
I have used Bontrager carbon rim brake wheelset for the last 3 years and north of 20,000 miles. These are tubeless ready. (Prior to this, I had used Campy Shamal alloy rim brake wheelset which was also excellent.) I have not had to use a spoke wrench on either of these wheels. They are amazing factory builds.
I have come to prefer Maxxis Pradone tires, given ease of mounting and durability of the tire. I typically get 2500-3000 miles out of the rear tire and easily 4000 miles out of the front mounted tire. Schwalbe tires are more difficult to seal on this wheelset and also were not as durable. Zip tires also did not seal easily. I have used 23 and 25 mm tires and expect to transition to 28 mm. I do not use tire levers. I sit and hold the wheel in my lap, then with gloved hands move the bead over the rim from each edge of the tire bead. I circle the tire with sealant to aid in lubrication of the bead for this mounting.
In more than 40,000 miles of use of tubeless tires I have had occasions of punctures where the tire softens, but not flats. I have had ONE flat resulting from hitting a rock that knocked the bead from the rim. I use a Stan’s tire sealant, usually about 30cc and have never seen the need to top off the sealant given the miles I ride and the tire worn out before I ever need to consider such a top off procedure. I bring the tires back to about 85 PSI about every 200 miles. I use a compressor for the initial tire mount.
I have no commercial interest in any of the products described.
In June 2018 I bought a Giant TCR Advanced Disk with tubeless ready “PR2” rims. It came with Giant Gavia AC2 tires with the Giant sealant already installed. Over the course of the first season I had small hissy punctures almost every time I went out on the bike. They sealed up after a few seconds. Once, there was a stubborn pinhole that just wouldn’t seal. I removed the tires and filled them with the Finish Line product. Problem solved. This season, I upgraded to Giant Gavia Race 0 tires. I was expecting even more hissy punctures, but to my surprise I have had not even one. As for installing and inflating, I wound up using some tire lubricant to get the last few inches onto the rim. I also wound up using CO2 cartridges for first inflation. After letting the tires sit for a few hours, I was able to deflate them, add sealant and re inflate using a pump. The tires will lose a few pounds per week. But I consider that normal even for tires with tubes. Overall I am quite happy to have gone tubeless. But then I get almost as much satisfaction tinkering and maintaining the bike as I do riding it. So I’d say they’re not for everyone. By the way I will always carry a spare tube and dread the roadside mess that will happen if and when I have to use it.
What tubeless-ready wheels and tires do you use?
Easton EC90SL Wheels (2nd generation) and Continental 5000TL
How long did it take you and what techniques did you use to get your tires on your wheels?
Front wheel was installed with hand only (no levers), did have to ensure that the first bead stayed in the middle grove to get the tire on. Rear wheel was not as easy, had to use a lever and took considerably longer (over 5 minutes) as it seemed “tighter).
Did they seal with a track pump or did you use a compressor?
Used a compressor, did not try track pump.
How much sealant do you put in? How much pressure do you lose between rides?
6 – 8 ounces (roughly). Loose a few PSI between rides (5 – 10 roughly).
What kind of sealant do you use? How often do you top off or replace your sealant?
Have not topped off the sealant on these wheels yet. Has been in there for about 3 months now.
Have you had a puncture that didn’t seal on the road? How did you deal with it?
No punctures yet.
Do you love or hate tubeless? Why?
LOVE THEM – roll better, corner better (may be a combination of tubeless and the 5000, I used the 4000 before) and are more comfortable than my old tubed tires. Am sold and will always want to use tubeless if given the choice!
I am using HED Ardennes+ SL wheels and the original-generation Schwalbe Pro One 28mm tires. Overall my experience has been positive.
I have never managed to mount new tires using just my hands. My preferred tool for getting the second bead onto the rim is a Kool-Stop tire bead jack. It makes the job quick and easy and saves my thumbs.
I have been able to seal my tires with a track pump except for one instance where I had a nightmare combination of poorly adhered rim tape and a damaged tubeless valve. An air compressor got the tire sealed but of course it would not hold pressure for more than a few seconds. My local bike shop got it all sorted.
I use about 90 ml (3 oz) of Stan’s sealant in new tires, and about 60 ml (2 oz) if I ever need to replace the sealant in used tires. I check and top off the sealant if necessary about every 3 months, and replace it once a year. I might lose 5 psi between rides.
So far, the sealant has handled all the punctures I’ve had, some of which I have not noticed until after my ride or even the next day. Most of my punctures are from goat head thorns or small mystery objects. The worst puncture I’ve had since going tubeless was from a large industrial staple. Once I removed it, the tire was losing pressure pretty quickly, but spinning the wheel a couple times let the sealant do its job.
I know I can’t remove my tires with anything that I carry on a ride, so I don’t carry a spare tube or patch kit. Instead I have a Dynaplug repair kit in case I get a puncture that is too large for the sealant to handle. So far I haven’t needed it.
I’m a fan of tubeless and have no plans to go back. The ride quality and performance may be better, but honestly it’s hard for me to tell the difference from my tubed setup. But I’m glad to trade a bit more difficulty at setup for the amazing puncture protection.
I read with interest your recent article and would like to give you my personal experience.
I received a warranty replacement Mavic Pro Carbon SL UST Wheelset with Yksion Pro UST tires mounted.
It was nearly impossible to remove the Yskion Pro tires from the wheelset and only with
extreme difficulty could the bike mechanic take the tires off the rims. I attempted to unsuccessfully mount Continental GP 5000 TL tires on the wheelset and the bike mechanic took 1 hour to mount these tires. I sold this wheelset and tire combination and purposely purchased
the Stans Avion R Pro Wheelset because of the rim design that features their BST-R system. This design feature is used for my mountain bike wheels and mounting any tire tubeless is a breeze. The BST-R internal rim shape has a shallow drop channel, smooth transition, wide flat bead shelf and short side walls. All other tubeless wheels that I looked at
had a specific bead channels on each side of the rim which made it extremely difficult to mount tubeless tires. The Stans rim design makes mounting the Continental GP5000 TL tires easy and I inflated tires without difficult with only a floor pump to 80 psi.
The tires are sealed with 3 ounces of a home brew copy of the Finish line non latex sealant and I have had no difficulty with sealing or air loss for the past 6 months and had no need to add additional sealant. The tubeless tires certainly has a better ride feel quality then the tubed versions and handling has been excellent even though I am inflating the tires to a higher psi. However, I have not encountered a tire puncture but did purchased tire plugs for possible flat that needs repair.
The Real Person!
Laurence, Thanks for sharing your experience however I need to caution you on the combination you described. The BST-R is essentially a hookless rim, similar to the AR wheels from ENVE. While many tires work with hookless rims, the Conti GP 5000 TL isn’t approved for that by ENVE. Here’s a link to the 4.5 AR page with ENVE’s Approved Tire List that you can see by clicking those words two lines down from the wheelset name under the photo.
I don’t know the specific reason ENVE doesn’t approve the Conti GP 5000 TL and the others on the list – Mavic Yksion Pro UST, Specialized S-Works Turbo 2Bliss Ready and three Hutchison Tires but approves about 2 dozen others. It’s likely due to the compatibility of the tire bead profile and hookless rim design.
The concern is that at the higher pressures we roadies normally run tubeless tires – 50 to 80psi or even more – the tire bead on the incompatible tires won’t hold onto the rim under hard cornering. Stans says that any road tire marked “tubeless” can work inflated up to 115 psi with their BST-R system. Here’s a link to the page about BST-R with video that clearly lays this out. I don’t know of any other wheelset manufacturer who suggests inflating a tubeless tire anywhere near that high. Personally, I would talk with Stans to understand why they think the Conti works on their rim and not on the ENVE despite having a similar hookless design.
My experience with the tubeless-ready Avion Disc Pro wheelset 3-4 years ago, one of the first road wheels they made that used a similar hookless design, convinced me that they weren’t ready for prime time with road wheels. The sealant leaked at the tire/rim interface during rides and lost 20psi or more overnight. They may have improved a lot over that time (most manufacturers have) but I would ask them specifically if they’ve tested for some of the tubeless tires ENVE has not approved including your Conti GP 5000 TL. Be safe my friend. Steve
Steve, thanks for your comments on compatibility of the Stans Avion R Pro wheelset and the
Continental GP 5000 TL tire combination. I read your previous review of the wheelset and
was tempted on commenting on my person experience with Stans no tubes wheelset.
I spoke to Stans concerning this issue and they stated that there should not be an issue.
For the past 6 months of usage with daily riding and occasional group rides at 20+mph, I have experienced no issues with the wheel/tire combination.. There is
a routine 10 psi overnight tire pressure loss and was similar to tubed clincher setup. Minimal leakage occasionally occurs of the non latex sealant at the valve area but never at the beads or spokes.
I built a new bike last winter and made the switch to tubeless wheels/tubes. The wheels are ENVE 3.4. I have used various Continental tubed tires in the past and wanted them on the new bike. When the bike was ready for tires Conti had not introduced the tubeless yet. Initial tire was the Schwable pro one. As noted there is a learning curve to mounting tubeless. Tire slip (diluted dish soap) help get the tires on the rims. To get the tires to seat a compressor was used the first time. The tires needed air every ride. As it turned out the issue was with the rim tape. Replace that and then needed air topped off weekly. After the 5000TL came out (and the price dropped) a set of those were installed. The first time to mount an air compressor was needed to seat. After the tires have been successful mounted on the rim only a hand pump was needed. The mounting was much easier and it helped to be more careful not to damage the rim tape. I use about 20-30mL of Stan’s No Tube tire sealant.
I can recommend either tire – both ride well – low rolling resistance, smooth ride, confident in corners, quieter than high pressure tubed tires. Maybe because I felt the need to justify the purchase of the Conti’s, but they feel a little slightly better in the listed qualities. I should have waited until the Schwable tires needed to be replaced before spending the extra money.
Previously I would get one or two flats on tubed tires in a season. I was only riding on paved road. This year I road on gravel roads, gravel and paved rails- to trails, and road riding. NO FLATS!!!! I live in rural VT so being able to ride on dirt roads has vastly expanded my riding options. The sealant has been replaced not because it needed to be, but the tires were changed.
Second big but nice difference is being able to ride at lower air pressure. The tires are filled to the upper end of the recommended pressure to keep rolling resistance down. The tires are slightly wider 25mm vs 22mm. With the wider tires and lower pressure the ride is much smoother – way less buzz in the handle bars and seat.
I’m happy that I made the switch and advocate to my riding partners to make the switch.
My inception to tubeless set up was an endeavor through the deepest anger anyone can endure.
Continental 5000 TL x Mavic Cosmic Elite Ust.
The journey was full of lows and ended up in the mid, mid-low note.
I was able to fit the tires, but it wasn’t without some witchcraft, obscure practice only known by the ancient.
For de record, I’m not afraid of tubeless anymore!
A second set up was WAY easier!
Pirelli Cinturato x Bontrager Paradigm TLR, hallelujah!
Hi Fabio, I have also just switched to the Pirellis and they are a great tyre…much better road feel and high speed cornering confidence than I ever had with the scwalbe pro ones that came with my Hunt wheels.
I know it’s off topic but Mavic Yksion still in the market? Last Summer that tire literally melt on my back wheel just after a few rides. Unbelievable since I used it a few years ago without any issue. I am referring to the clincher but I think the material is the same.
The Real Person!
Gabriele, The Yksion tire you have is probably the one that was discontinued. They introduced the Yksion Pro UST tires a couple years back and they are a big improvement. Steve
> But, if we were to choose only between tubeless road tires for the above reasons and not consider how well a tire works with your wheelset together, that would be a big mistake as Alan and I, unfortunately, found out.
Hmm, count me in. This is rather an epic fail. Used Conti 4000 tubed previously and was very looking forward to using 5000 TL on my Mavic Kysirium Elite UST bought a year ago and getting ready for an upgrade.
Of course “In the Know” could not have been “In the know” about these tyres as they were not available at the time of review if I remember, so I guess I will just have to be angry with Conti.
Wheels and tires are Enve 4.5AR & new Schwalbe pro-one (Followed your advice and totally glad I did.)
Relatively easy to put on by hand without levers.
Sealed with a track pump
Used approx 25 mls of Bontrager sealant. Too early for a top up. Pressure loss is minimal after the first week or so. I run the tires at 60psi and give them usually just one pump stroke before a ride.
No punctures on the road. Had an overnight flat in the first week, pumped the tire up and gave it a spin and all was good.
Tubeless is fantastic until you have an issue where you have to put a tube in on the road side (I have only watched this – not pretty)! Definitely a smoother ride and great handling at the lower pressures. I’ve got tubeless on my gravel bike as well and apart from one tire being a problem (porous side walls – may have damaged it riding with a flat when it had a tube) I’ve never had an issue. The key seems to be low pressures in the tires. I’ve seen a few friends spray sealant long and far, but they run high pressure.
What tubeless-ready wheels and tires do you use?
MTB: Shimano and Lightbicycle. Schwalbe and Maxxis.
Schwalbe are lighter, don’t seat as easily or well, lose air more quickly and wear and damage faster. Maxxis are heavier but seat easier, lose less air and wear better.
Road: Zipp 303s Conti 5000 TL (early days – only several months in).
How long did it take you and what techniques did you use to get your tires on your wheels?
MTB: 30-60 minutes, depending on the tyre. Schwalbe longer. Maxxis shorter.
Road: easy, straight on with tyre lever – Conti 5000 TL.
Did they seal with a track pump or did you use a compressor?
MTB: Schwalbe always need a blast of air from compressor or similar. Maxxis usually seal with floor pump.
Road: Conti sealed with floor pump.
How much sealant do you put in? How much pressure do you lose between rides?
MTB: 60ml per tyre. Day to day loss is minimal/not noticeable but over longer periods (weeks) they eventually go completely flat. Schwalbe hold air far worse than Maxxis.
Road: 30ml per tyre. I lose at least 2-3psi per day every day. You have to keep a much closer eye on tyre pressure maintenance than with tubes.
What kind of sealant do you use? How often do you top off or replace your sealant?
Only ever use Stans (the newer Race Sealant has larger particles which are good for MTB). Top up every 3-6 months.
Have you had a puncture that didn’t seal on the road? How did you deal with it?
No, all punctures sealed so far.
Do you love or hate tubeless? Why?
Even if it can be a bit of a pain to put on the ability to run much lower pressures and seal punctures is an absolute winner.
It is the only way to go on a MTB where running really low pressure is invaluable (18-25 psi).
On the road I dropped 25psi (from 80-90psi with tubes down to 55-65psi) with 28mm tubeless (and could probably go lower).
For road tubeless I think you really need to run these lower pressures both for the benefits and safer riding where you don’t put undue pressure on the tyre bead holding that air in. Tubeless as a standard outside of road bicycles all runs at low tyre pressure. If you want to run high pressures then absolutely stick with tubes.
In all cases, MTB and Road, sealant is essential both to complete the seal of the tyre to the rim. Sealant gets into the rim bead area and assists to keep it stuck on the rim (I find from when I remove tubeless).
I was an early adopter of tubeless road from back in 2006 with a pair of Dura Ace tubeless wheel and Hutchinson Fusion 2’s. Sometimes I could get them to seat with a floor pump but did need compressed air on some occasions. It was my understanding that that combination was co developed and sealant was not necessary to get them to hold air. At the time I believe Hutchinson sealant was one of the few available sealants other than Stan’s.
Mounting tires was never a problem with tire levers. The reduction in flats was noticeable and rise quality was improved. With very few tire choices then on the market I went back to tubes Michelin Pro’s which I used until more tubeless options started to become available which definitely seemed to coincide with the adoption of wider rims. I went with a newer pair of D/A wheels which were slightly wider and started using Schwalbe Pro One’s and this was transformational from a performance point of view. By this time I transitioned to using a small air compressor to make bead seating easier. The Schwalbe’s are beyond doubt the best handling and fastest tires I have yet used. I was never happy with Stan’s and began using Orange Seal which has worked very well and has generally kept me following except for those times when a cut or joke was so large that no sealant would have helped but tubing then got me home. After the D/A’s I had a custom wheel set built using Carbon Ti hubs and Nox Composites Falcor rims that are fully wide by contemporary standards (a 23 plumps out to a full 25) which I am still using after over two years and easily over 25,000 miles exclusively running the Pro One’s.
While I liked the reliability of Orange Seal I wanted something that lasted longer and found out about Muc Off that claimed to last 6 months. While that may be true I found it the worst sealant I have used as it does a very poor job sealing punctures, makes a huge mess that if not cleaned up before the sealant cures is extremely difficult to remove from the frame and components. I may have been able to forgive this if the sealant worked well but never once did I have a puncture that didn’t stay sealed compared to Orange Seal that almost always seems to hold forming a plug that usually will hold until the tire wears out. So the Orange Seal needs replacing about every 3 months or so but presently I ride enough to need to replace at least a rear tire within that time period so it’s just in front that sealant life is a concern.
Tubeless has earned a well deserved reputation for being difficult to deal with and I think I may have experienced every conceivable issue possible and learned through trial and error how to deal with any eventuality. I truly love tubeless and basically won’t go back. The headaches are well worth it for the performance which is noticeable with the right tires and the fact that most minor punctures will not require even slowing g down. Many times I never knew I had punctured until I got home to find sealant spray all over my seat tube. In bad weather especially that is a huge comfort. Tubeless user for life.
Helpful article. I use Schwalbe G One Speed 30mm tyres tubeless on Hunt Carbon CX wheels and Schwalbe G One All Round 38mm tyres on Hunt Four Seasons wheels (on different bikes)
Both tyre and wheel combinations work perfectly, are easy to fit and will inflate and seal with a floor pump
In use the Schwalbe G One All Round 38mm have 60ml fluid per tyre (Stans) and have been perfect and will be my choice of tyre for next years Tour of Flanders Sportive to cope with the cobbles.
The Schwalbe G One Speed 30mm have lost quite a bit of pressure day to day and I struggle to finish a 600km audax without adding more air during the ride. Am trying Orange sealant and after losing pressure I have topped up several times so there is a danger I could have over 100ml in the tyres now.
The G One Speed tyres are prone to cuts, particularly if you end up mixing in some gravel riding and I have had one blow out after 2,000km which couldn’t be repaired. I carry a 32mm Conti 4 Seasons and tube for such events when riding unsupported. Removing a tubeless tyre and fitting a tubed replacement on the roadside is a messy experience and can slow you down in an event. Having said that the ride comfort and rolling speed of the G One Speed is so good I am sticking with them on faster longer rides
My wife’s winter bike has got Mavic OpenPro UST wheels with Hutchinson Fusion tyres. Very easy fit. My winter bike has Hunt Aero/Wide wheels with Vittoria Corsa Control clinchers at the moment. Again very easy fit.
I think the big problem for me is the sealant. Our local bike shop recommended topping up every six months. I find in practice that after a couple of months the tyres gradually deflate and won’t hold pressure.
I currently use Orange Sealant, their website gives an average sealant life of 30 to 45 days. Reading a few reviews, Caffélatex seems to be the best sealant available. They recommend checking sealant levels every two months.
I’d like to avoid my wife having a flat with dry sealant in the tyre. At least with an inner tube you know whether it’s working or not.
I think for tubeless to really be practical it needs:
Longer lasting sealant.
An easy way of checking that the sealant hasn’t dried.
A quick no mess way of topping up.
Having just spent 20+ minutes topping up two tyres with splashes of latex all over the work surface, I’m not crazy about repeating this every month, apart from the expense.
What tubeless-ready wheels and tires do you use?
GP5000 TL and Reynolds AR58X AR62X
How long did it take you and what techniques did you use to get your tires on your wheels?
~5 minutes, installed by hand. Needed some pressure from my thumbs, but I’d put this combo in the “easy to fit” category. Similar to getting clinchers on. Note that people have said that the 5000 TL was impossible to fit on previous Reynolds wheels (Attack, Assault) so they must have changed the rim bed depth. The extra width might help as mentioned above.
Did they seal with a track pump or did you use a compressor?
Track pump, popped right on
How much sealant do you put in? How much pressure do you lose between rides?
~30ml, maybe a few PSI lost per day
What kind of sealant do you use? How often do you top off or replace your sealant?
Orange Seal (regular formula). Only topped off once (planned for 2x per year) and most of the sealant was still there.
Have you had a puncture that didn’t seal on the road? How did you deal with it?
Not yet, probably ~1500 miles. I’m sure i will on my next ride now that i’ve said it. Had one cut that i think would’ve been a puncture & it sealed.
Do you love or hate tubeless? Why?
Love is a strong word, but i haven’t seen any downsides
What tubeless-ready wheels and tires do you use?
Between my wife and I, we use currently:
DT Swiss ERC1100 – GP5000TL 28c
Mavic Ksyrium Elite UST (I believe the same model that is the subject of this article) – Pirelli Cinturato Velo 32c
Mavic Cosmic Carbon SL UST – GP5000TL 25c
Mavic Aksium UST – Hutchinson Fusion 11Storm 4s 28c front, Pirelli Cinturato Velo 26c rear
I absolutely agree with the Continental GP5000TL being the most difficult of the tubeless/tubeless ready tyres to mount. This being said – I’ve mounted them sucessfully to both our DT Swiss (28c version) and Mavic Cosmic (25c version) wheelsets. The GP5000s went on fairly easily (for tubeless tyres) on the DT Swiss. They were, however, the most difficult experience I’ve ever had to mount to the Cosmics. So much so, that once they need replacing I told my wife I wouldn’t mount those tyres to her wheels again, and strongly suggested she go back to the Pro Ones. I did not try on the other wheels as of yet.
As for the Ksyrium Elites – I’ve never had issues mounting and setting up tubeless tyres. Those wheels have seen the Yksion UST, Pirelli Cinturato Velo, Hutchinson Fusion 11Storm (both performance and 4s), and the GP 4 Season (non tubeless). In all cases, I got the tyres on without levers.
The Aksiums have only seen the Hutchinson Fusion 11Storm 4S and the Pirelli Cinturatos. Both went on with zero difficulties.
How long did it take you and what techniques did you use to get your tires on your wheels?
Everything went out without any tools, except for the GP5000s, which I eventually found the way to coax on with two levers, and the Schwalbe Pro Ones (the older version) which are also quite tight, but more more forgiving than the Contis.
Did they seal with a track pump or did you use a compressor?
I have one of those pumps with an air chamber to inflate tubeless systems.
How much sealant do you put in? How much pressure do you lose between rides?
Roughly 30ml for 25/26c, 40ml for 28, 45ml for the 32c. Generally the tyres lose between 3-6 psi per day if I averaged it out.
What kind of sealant do you use? How often do you top off or replace your sealant?
I found that in the climate here in Singapore, the Stans sealant tends to last around 4 months, and the Orange seal about 2.5-3 months.
Have you had a puncture that didn’t seal on the road? How did you deal with it?
Only once – and I was using Stan’s sealant at the time, which prompted me to try Orange Seal. I just popped in a tube and kept going. Same as I’ve always done, but messier.
Do you love or hate tubeless? Why?
I love it. It’s been extremely solid so far. The extra comfort and grip from lower pressures is great, and now I’ve gotten used to dealing with it and the wheels we use, it’s relatively easy to manage.
I use Hunt Race Aero Wide wheels and have used Schwalbe Pro 1 tires for the past two years. I use about 40ml of Stans sealant. Mounting has always been easy. Years of experience mounting ATV tires probably made it easier to learn to mount road tires. I’ve only had one flat that wouldn’t seal-hit a piece of debris that sliced the sidewall. Had to use a dollar and a tube to get home. Had great experience the first year, going a few thousand miles (and wearing out a few tires) with no flats and excellent ride quality. This year I found out why there are some complaints about the Pro 1. Had a couple tires that were retired after only a few hundred miles because they had lost chunks of rubber, making them unsafe. I also had to patch tires a few times for punctures that wouldn’t completely seal (though I was never stranded by these). For these reasons I’ve ordered Hutchinson Fusion 5 Performance to try for next year.
Definitely a fan of tubeless. I ride on roads with a lot of debris and tubeless has reduced the flat problem significantly. Ride quality is noticeably better. Rolling resistance is claimed to be better, though probably not enough to notice. Hoping the Hutchinsons will be a bit more robust than the Schwalbes, though I was happy with them, overall. Definitely agree that the mounting experience determines whether someone will like tubeless or not.
Have moved to tubeless about 18 months ago and have felt it rather like the shift to electric cars…you know its the right direction/choice but the faff is borderline for the benefit, and the various systems/approaches haven’t been ironed out yet.
What tubeless-ready wheels and tires do you use?
-I have two Hunt wheelsets, deep carbon in summer and the alloy in winter. I used the Schwalbe Pro Ones that came with the wheels until they wore out too quickly – didn’t feel entrely confident in them either.. Now on Pirelli Cintauro with added puncture protection which feel fabulous…(one of) the most confidence inspiring tyres I have ever used. I also use Milkit valves kit which has a seal to prevent sealant coming back out when you take out the core..though you have to remember to deflate first….
How long did it take you and what techniques did you use to get your tires on your wheels?
-the scwalbes would go one with a track pump sometimes or a blast from a co2 canister. The pirellis didn’t seat quite so readily but i realised I needed to fiddle with the tyre around the valve to allow the air to go into the tyre rather than leak out the side…both went on the rims without great difficulty by hand
Did they seal with a track pump or did you use a compressor?
-track pump – see above..
How much sealant do you put in?
-have started putting in more than recommended since it is unclear how long it lasts and how much is lost with soem punctures…the Milkit system now lets me see how much liquid sealant is still in the tyre but i need to be more regular in checking.
How much pressure do you lose between rides?
-The scwalbes lost significant pressure over a few days -needed pumping, the pirellis much less, no need to pump for a coupel of weeks
What kind of sealant do you use?
-orange seal
How often do you top off or replace your sealant?
-irregularly
Have you had a puncture that didn’t seal on the road? How did you deal with it?
-yes, the schwalbes caught a piece of metal that sliced the tyre, used a worm plug thingy when it was obvious that sealant was still spraying out..i threw them away after that
Do you love or hate tubeless? Why?
– love the ride quality and the low pressure feel. The security of not being stopped by tiny bits of flint or glass
-minor hate for the mess and faff of putting the tyres on – much less likely to switch tyres on wheelsets than in the past.
-minor worry over dealing with a significant puncture out on the road.
overall, it is the way to go. just need to know what to do with all the old tubes, tyres and wheels I have lying around…
Hi Steve
I read your best upgrade disc wheels and choose KSYRIUM ELITE UST DISC 2018.
I plan to go tubeless with GP5000. Then I found this hard to swallow truth.
But wait for second.
I quite sure that Ksyrium elite ust disc are spec as ETRTO 622x19TC.
In this article your test wheels set is rim brake right ? That is spec as 622x17TC .
This give me some headache. If your right about the internal rim, Is that mean my wheel can be to fitted with other tire than Yksion pro ?
My issue with the bundle Yksion Pro 28c is that it too fragile, I got 2 punch in 1000k and in the rear it already show sight of wear. In other hand, on same road area my Fulcrum racing 4 disc + GP4000s2 have no puncher and the same wear level appear around 1700km. To be honest Yksion pro are inferior to GP4000s2 in almost all every aspect.
These reason above make me want to “upgrade” and go tubeless with GP5000, may be in size of 28mm for some descending grip.
Do you think this will combination will fit ? Any advice are welcome.
The Real Person!
Dani, Chapeau. You are correct. Good catch. Alan’s wheelset and the wheel I tested were the 17C rim brake version. The Mavic Kysrium Elite UST disc brake version is a 19C.
That said, I don’t know if the Conti GP 5000 TL will mount on your Mavic disc brake Kysrium Elite UST wheels. I’d take a look at the width of the center channel. If it is 12-14 mm wide, the Conti’s may fit. At least it would be worth a try if the channel is at least that wide. Steve
Hi Dani, this reply comes a month after your post so this may be old news for you, the Conti 5000TL will fit on the Mavic Kysrium Elite disc UST wheels. It was a struggle, but with tire levers and appropriate language I managed. They sealed very nicely just using a track pump.
Answers to these kinds of questions would be great.
What tubeless-ready wheels and tires do you use?
~ ENVE 4.5AR with Schwalbe Pro One (not the latest version) 28mm nominal (measure some over 30mm when inflated on wheel)
How long did it take you and what techniques did you use to get your tires on your wheels?
~ First time was a real struggle; subsequently goes reasonably smoothly after acquiring (i) an air compressor; (ii) koolstop tire lever; (iii) Race sealant; (iv) slippery liquid to coat tire bead.
~ Time for installation depends whether or not tape needs replacing. I find that aspect takes some 30 minutes as I regards it important to get the tape seated into the central channel to ‘open-up’ the tire to facilitate installation (I use a trimmed pencil rubber to assist in this task)
~ Once rim ready, tire installation using air compressor is now quite a smooth process taking perhaps 20 minutes (unless I am re-installing a tire, in which case cleaning up the tire bead is time-consuming)
Did they seal with a track pump or did you use a compressor?
~ first time really struggled with track pump and two of us were eventually successful; subsequent installations went much easier when I used an air compressor
How much sealant do you put in?
~ some 80 / 90 ml
How much pressure do you lose between rides?
~ I usually check tire pressures before every ride, so as such subjectively I do not notice much difference compared with tubed set-up;
~ lose perhaps 1 or 2 PSI each day
What kind of sealant do you use?
~ Mixture Stans Race and regular sealant
~ have bought some ‘Orange’ sealant and will use that next Spring.
How often do you top off or replace your sealant?
~ top-up every 3 months or so;
~ Replace each year
Have you had a puncture that didn’t seal on the road? How did you deal with it?
~ Yes, had two punctures in quick succession
~ 1st puncture installed a tube (after accepting help from passer-by to get the bead off the rim (which I could not manage with my weak hands/thumbs, passer-by accomplished task easily!)
~ second puncture 5 minutes later I called AAA (who in Canada help cyclists as part of car membership)
Do you love or hate tubeless? Why?
~ Overall I love riding on my tubeless AR4.5ARs, low-60’s PSI provides great comfort + easy rolling + great handling. If tire loses a little air, I am comfortable riding with pressure down to mid-50’s PSI
~ One aspect I really dislike is how challenging I find it to dismount the tires from my ENVE 4.5ARs while on the road (I have some special tools to help when working from home which are not available when out cycling!)
Steve, I don’t really know where to post this question but I think it fits this thread best….
I have a Giant TCR advanced disc pro with hydraulic disc brakes that is tubeless ready. I dont run them tubeless and never have (they are the stock Giant carbon SLR wheels).
I am hearing people state that tubeless set ups corner better and have better traction with better rolling (less) resistance. Am I reading that correctly? I have trouble with traction on this bike for some reason. Especially while climbing out of the saddle on wet or even damp roads (6% or more seems to be the cut off point)! At first I thought i just needed more time on the bike but I have over 10,000 miles on it and still slip all over the road in wet weather (out of the saddle). I have been running the same tires as on my Tarmac at the same pressure (on which I have no issues) Conti 4000 25c at 88 psi (I weigh 154-158).
Would love to hear your ideas on this…maybe I need to run tubeless? On a side note, i contacted Giant about this, talked to lbs, even talked to a rep at a Giant event …mostly got responses like, “you need to change your out of saddle technique”, and “you probably just dont have a good feel for climbing” yada, yada, yada…
The Real Person!
Paul, Tubeless can give you better handling if you set the pressure right and lower rolling resistance depending on what tires you pick but I don’t think that’s the solution to your issue. (More about tubeless here if you want to consider it further).
One thing you can try to improve your handling is to lower your tire pressure. At your weight, 88 psi seems a bit high. Try dropping it 5psi and see if that improves your handling. If so, drop again another 5 and then another 5 until you find the handling is getting squishy. I weight 150 lbs and ride 25C tubed tires at 70psi and tubeless from 55-65 depending on width and wheels I’m riding.
When you are out of the saddle, bike stiffness plays a big role in your traction. On the wet, likely even bigger. I don’t know the Giant TCR disc but I do know the Tarmac is one of the stiffest bikes out there. So that may be part of it. But, while you may be comfortable out of the saddle while climbing, staying in the saddle is a more efficient way to climb. And considering that you are slipping around, that would be even more reason to climb in the saddle. Steve
Steve, that was very informative. Thank you for your response. I have dropped the pressure and am now just waiting on a rainy day to see how that affects the handling. Thanks again.
1. What tubeless-ready wheels and tires do you use?
—Ksyrium Elite UST Disc and Continental 5000 TL
2. How long did it take you and what techniques did you use to get your tires on your wheels?
—Just over 7 minutes and I did have to use a tire lever at the end
3. Did they seal with a track pump or did you use a compressor?
—a track pump with a chamber that can act as a compressor, though in the past I’ve pumped up this combination of wheel/tire with out using the pressure chamber
4. How much sealant do you put in? How much pressure do you lose between rides?
—40ml (28C tire) and I lose around 10-15 psi over two days but it levels off after a few days with a total drop of around 20 psi
5. What kind of sealant do you use? How often do you top off or replace your sealant?
—Serfas Tire Medic, around 3 months
6. Have you had a puncture that didn’t seal on the road? How did you deal with it?
—Not with the Conti’s but I did get a several mm rip in the Yksion Pro UST tire that came with the rim shortly after I put it on. I sealed it with one of those “worm” like plugs. It held air until I got home but I trashed the tire and went with the Conti’s
7. Do you love or hate tubeless? Why?
—I really like them. Smoother ride, no pinch flats, simple punctures sealed as you’re riding and from my single experience with the damaged Yksion, easy to repair on the road
So to sum up: I’ve now put on two 5000 tires with the Ksyrium Elite UST Disc rim and have had minimal (though admittedly, over two minutes to install) trouble installing them. My front tire currently has just over 2000 miles on it with zero flats, the rear tire is new…
Hi guys,
I’m also a owner of the Mavic Ksyrium Elite UST and honestly I never moved from the Yksion Pro UST 700x25c that are giving me big satisfaction.
They apply on the wheels easly with the levers and no compressor is needed, only a normal pump.
I typically add 30ml of Mavic sealant every 4 month and I lose 1bar every 2wks. No puncture in 12000Km. Wow!
I love them because of the curve stability also in wet conditions. Rolling resistance is also very good.
However recently I started to think about a 700x28c tire to fit my Cannondale Supersix EVO (2018 model with Shimano Ultegra caliper R8000 brakes) in order to reach more comfort.
So, I measured the real width of the tires and in mean I measured 26.5cm instead of the 25.
Considering the small space available, someone of you have ever measured the real width of the Yksion Pro UST 700x28c mounted on the Ksyium Elite UST?
Regards from Italy
I found it impossible to mount the Continental Grand Prix 5000 TL 700x25c tire, on a Mavic Cosmic Pro Carbon SL UST Black Front wheel.
My local bike shop professionals failed as well; at one point, they tried using two ‘Kool-Stop’ Tire Bead Jacks simultaneously, to no avail!
I was able to mount (with difficulty) a Conti 5000 TL 700x28c tire, on the Mavic Cosmic Rear wheel. However, I could never get it to seat perfectly; and have reinstalled the default Mavic Yksion Pro UST tires.
(Sigh.)
Arnold
Seattle
The default (Mavic-installed) Yksion Pro UST 700x25c tires seemed decent … but I got spooked when I spotted several sealant splotches after my first ride on them! These pinprick punctures sealed OK (with Mavic-supplied sealant); but they were punctures nonetheless, and triggered my quick order for Continentals (which seemed bomb-proof).
Alas, I also spotted several sealant splotches on the Conti 5000 TL 28mm rear tire after my first ride on them! These pinprick punctures sealed OK (with Orange sealant); but they are punctures nonetheless …