THE BEST ALL AROUND CARBON DISC WHEELSET
In this review, I’ll share our reviews and give you my ratings of the leading all-around carbon disc wheelsets that perform well on a wide range of road terrain and racing disciplines.
TL;DR (click for more)
- All-around carbon disc wheelsets, now in their 4th generation, are faster, more comfortable, and do more things well on a wider range of terrain than the best carbon rim brake wheels ever did.
- When choosing between these wheels, their versatility, aero drag (momentum), sidewind stability, lateral stiffness, vertical compliance, and responsiveness matter most for similarly priced models.
- We rate the Zipp 454 NSW (available here, here, and here) and the ENVE SES 4.5 (available here, here, here, and here) our best performing and recommended all-around carbon disc wheelsets.
- You can compare the performance ratings, prices, and specs of all the wheelsets in this category including all-arounders from Bontrager, Cadex, Campagnolo, DT Swiss, Shimano, and Roval.
- For budget-priced carbon all-around wheels, see my reviews of the Best Value Carbon Wheels.
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CARBON DISC WHEELSET DEVELOPMENTS
We’ve now seen a 4th generation of the evolution of carbon disc wheelsets. What started as modifications of rim brake wheels is the only new carbon wheelset choice you have.
While it’s still early in this latest generation and most carbon disc brake wheelsets available to us enthusiasts are 3rd generation ones, the 4th generation of wider, lighter, tubeless-only, and hookless rims are upon us.
Many of the latest generation wheelsets will also be less expensive than those from the prior generation and, thanks to new standards, will be easier to install tires on, though they will still not be as easy as clinchers.
Carbon Disc Wheelset Evolution 2014-2022
The most notable takeaway for me after assembling this chart is how quickly things have changed and how much the latest generation of all-around wheels for road disc bikes are different than those we rode just a few years ago on our rim brake bikes.
In fact, most of the leading wheelset companies have stopped selling carbon rim brake wheels, and all development time and money is spent on disc brake wheels. That’s why I’ve called the 4th generation “All In On Disc Brake Wheels.”
These changes have made the all-around carbon disc wheelset faster, more comfortable, more durable, and more versatile than all-around rim brake wheels ever were without any effect on stiffness, acceleration, or handling.
Remember when better braking was all that most people fixed on when talking about the benefits of going to road disc bikes? Well, the ability to get all the benefits I just summarized is a whole lot more than better braking, which was enough of a reason for many people to go with a road disc bike in the first place.
Let me go through some of these benefits a bit more.
Faster – Wider rims mean you can run some 28C tires to gain more comfort without incurring additional drag. Wider tires also reduce losses or energy that saps your body from the road vibrations that come with a narrower tire that you need to run at a higher inflation pressure to maintain the same opposing force as a wider one. (See my post on how wide wheels and wide tires can make you faster for more on this.)
Most of the Gen 3 disc brake wheelsets were designed for 25C tires that, once inflated, will be narrower than the external rim width. This makes the rim-tire combination more aero than using 28mm tires when your speeds top 20mph/32kph. And aero gains are something you pay for when buying deep or all-around carbon disc wheels.
More Comfortable – Going tubeless allows you to run your wider tires at lower pressures without pinch flat concerns. Lower pressures make for a more comfortable ride and fewer impedance losses.
More Durable – The best carbon rim brake wheels use resins with high melting points to make it much harder for riders to warp them when they apply or drag the brakes. The trade-off is that these resins can make the wheels a bit brittle. While I can’t quantify the difference, dedicated disc brake wheels use lower melting temperature resins that are less brittle.
More Versatile – Because the latest generations of all-around carbon disc wheels have gotten wider, more tubeless friendly, and more durable, you can comfortably ride them on gravel and cyclocross tracks with the appropriate tires. Those with 23mm or 25mm inside rim widths are as wide as dedicated gravel wheels. Doing this can save you from having to buy another set of wheels to excel on dirt, grass, and gravel roads and trails.
A few words about tubeless tires. You’ll notice that tubeless tires are often mentioned in my description of developments and their benefits.
Removable valve cores, easier-to-mount rims, and a whole lot more experience with tubeless tires while testing all these carbon disc wheelsets have made installing them easier and cleaner and mellowed me somewhat to the minimally more added work they bring over standard clincher tires.
Lower prices, lower rolling resistance (lower than tubular or clincher tires), the ability to run lower pressures, more comfort, and having nearly every puncture seal so far have made me look past many of my previous objections to tubeless.
While tubeless still requires a learning curve, I can now say the benefits they add to the right rims can outweigh the diminishing disadvantages and make it well worth getting up that curve if you want those benefits. My review of tubeless tires lays all of this out in more detail and gives you my recommendations for the best ones.
WHAT MATTERS MOST
For each In The Know Cycling review, I evaluate category-specific criteria in four groups – performance, design, quality, and cost. The criteria that matter most in those groups for the best all-around wheels for road disc bikes are as follows:
Performance: Versatility, specificity, aero drag (momentum), sidewind stability, lateral stiffness, vertical compliance, aka “comfort,” responsiveness, and durability.
Design: Wheel weight and material, rim depth, rim inner and outer widths, rim profile, hub and spoke design, and wheel finish.
Quality: Warranties, crash support, and service/support.
Cost: Purchase price, cost of ownership, and replacement cost.
I use most of those criteria for all-around disc brake wheelsets, with a few exceptions and changes in emphasis that I’ll point out below.
You can’t measure a wheelset’s aero drag on the road, so, as a surrogate, we evaluate and compare how well different wheelsets maintain their momentum at different speeds.
Since the latest all-around carbon disc wheelsets are deeper than earlier ones, sidewind stability has become increasingly important.
And since all-around wheels are intended for a wide range of paved road terrain – flats, rollers, climbs, descents – and for mixed or unpaved surfaces and for cyclocross racing, and even gravel, versatility is key. Specificity, or how well a wheelset performs in a specific situation, is a criterion best used for dedicated aero, climbing, or gravel wheels.
Stiffness and compliance are important for all wheels.
Responsiveness, or how lively and light your wheels feel as you accelerate and handle your bike at different speeds, across varying terrain, and through a range of cornering situations, is a key measure of all-around wheels but less in others.
Durability is obviously important for any wheelset. However, we can only measure it on an exception basis since testing one set of wheels is not representative of the performance of the many wheels a company makes of a specific model. We also don’t test it long enough to induce failure. If it fails or has issues early in our testing, or we hear or read about shops and users reporting chronic problems, we’ll certainly report that.
Design specs like weight and rim width are worth noting but may or may not deliver the intended performance those specs are often associated with. A wheelset’s actual responsiveness, stiffness, and comfort on the road, for example, are far more important than the design specifications and new technology that we often get so hung up (and sold) on and that we too easily equate to those performance attributes.
Considering the range of options the road cycling enthusiast has to choose from in all-around wheels for road disc bikes, I recommend a Best Performer (independent of price) but not a Best Value wheelset (considering performance and price) in this review. For less expensive all-around wheels which unfortunately do not perform as well, check out my review of the best value carbon wheelsets here.
Quality is either a go or no-go in my recommendations. I won’t recommend anything that doesn’t have an acceptable level of quality according to my criteria. I’m also not going to recommend something that has superior quality but under-performs or has higher costs. When two wheelsets perform more or less the same, I do consider quality and cost criteria in recommending one as a Best Performer.
With all of that noted, here are my evaluations of the best all-around carbon disc wheelsets for road cycling enthusiasts.
ALL-AROUND CARBON DISC WHEELSET COMPARATIVE RATINGS
Go directly to reviews:
Campagnolo Bora Ultra WTO 45 Disc Brake
REVIEWS AND RECOMMENDATIONS
Best Performer
ZIPP 454 NSW – FAST WHEELS ANYWHERE YOU RIDE
If you don’t want to pick between wheels that would be fast on flats vs. on rolling hills vs. on climbs or in a training ride, group ride, road race, or crit, I recommend the latest Zipp 454 NSW Tubeless Disc-brake wheelset. It will be fast in all those situations and the fastest around in many of them.
At US$4220/£3376/€3798, it better be. But if top performance in a single wheelset in nearly every situation and against nearly every criterion is important to you, it just may be worth it.
That’s the conclusion that fellow testers Nate, Miles, and I reached after riding the Zipp 454 NSW.
At its core, it’s a stiff, deep, and light wheelset. Those three attributes, along with the 454 NSW’s fast-engaging rear hub, make it so responsive that it redefines the term “snappy.”
Practically, the 454 NSW’s superior ability to accelerate made it an ideal partner for 20-30 second break-away efforts and sprint finishes. Except for on the steepest of slopes, Miles said this wheelset “made me faster on nearly any effort I tried.”
And Miles is already a fast dude, regularly winning P/1/2 masters crits, road, and stage races in the Northeast and finishing top 10 at US Nationals.
Even for me, a more average B group level roadie, the sensation of riding this highly responsive 454 NSW wheelset was energizing almost from the first pedal stroke. Once into my rides, I felt like I had great legs every day I rode them.
Nate, our A group Bullet Train ride leader who rode the 454 NSW on some of those early morning hammerfests and out front of 100 and 140-mile one-day rides with 8,000 to 10,000 feet of climbing, initially resisted giving them up for others to test. Despite being a peace-loving guy, he paraphrased Charleton Heston’s line about prying them out of his “cold dead hands.”
Nate has been testing all sorts of wheels along with me for at least the last 5+ years, including the prior generation 454 NSW rim brake wheels. His feedback started with a most definitive statement.
These are the first wheels where I haven’t felt like I was making a tradeoff between aero and climbing performance.
I don’t know what they cost (I’ve trained him not to look at price or specs and just judge performance – ed). I’m sure it will be high. But, I would put them in the category where it just MIGHT be worth paying $1,000 more for these than others which are ALMOST as good but not on all characteristics. (Nate’s capitalization.)
Unlike Nate’s experience with the earlier 454 NSW rim brake wheels that wobbled in crosswinds to the point where he slowed on each fast downhill section of a looping road race, he felt confident on similarly fast, windy descents riding this new 454 NSW disc brake wheelset.
Miles felt far less comfortable in some windy situations. When the breezes picked up to about 20 mph and came directly from the side, it felt like he was getting a slight body check and was pushed around far more than with any wheelset he’s ever ridden.
It may be that the 454 NSW’s sawtooth rim profile is best at reducing crosswinds at lesser yaw angles than what Miles experienced and perhaps more similar to those Nate did. For me, I always seem to be riding into headwinds no matter what course I’m on, and it was no different riding the 454 NSW.
The only other slight knock we had on this carbon disc wheelset was its ability to hold its momentum on the flats at speeds north of 25mph. While the 454 NSW rolled just fine at that speed, it felt like we needed a bit more effort to keep pace with the average aero wheelset that is often 5-10mm deeper and 200-300 grams heavier. It’s simply a matter of physics and a tradeoff the speediest of enthusiasts might want to keep in mind.
You are likely doing a lot of handling when you aren’t on a breakaway, going over rolling terrain, heading up climbs, or sprinting for the line. And the good news is that this is another area where the 454 NSW outperforms most wheelsets.
We experienced precise, confident, high-speed cornering. These carbon disc wheels do exactly what you want them to do in big arc turns, 50+mph downhills, slower switchbacks, and even quick, last-second movements.
With the right tires and at the right pressures, the ride is also very comfortable, no matter how good the pavement is. While many all-around wheels are similarly compliant nowadays, some wheels around the 454 NSW’s depth tend to give up comfort by using a narrower rim to keep weight down. You make no such trade-off with these Zipps.
Add to all of this a very smooth rolling hubset and almost silent, fast-engaging freehub. That makes it even more tempting to start a breakaway and easier to crank up a sprint.
The 454 NSW defies categorization. It’s the wheelset equivalent of a hors categorie climb, one that is beyond categorization.
Based on its 55 to 59 mm deep rims, you might think the Zipp 454 NSW is an aero wheelset. You wouldn’t be wrong. Judging from its 1388-gram weight, you might guess it climbs well. Indeed it does. Hookless, 23mm inside rim width will make for a very comfortable ride, right? Yes, and perhaps worthy of riding gravel, though we didn’t test it off-road.
So are these all-around wheels? Yes, that may be the most encompassing definition though it is faster and better than any all-arounder we’ve tested on terrain that never exceeds 5-6% up or down and faster than many aero wheels on the flats and climbing wheels on steeper pitches.
Perhaps it’s best to call it an all-everything wheelset. Or just fast anywhere you want to ride.
You can buy the Zipp 454 NSW using these links to Performance Bike, BTD (BikeTiresDirect), and Sigma Sports, all stores I recommend and rate highly for their prices, customer satisfaction, and support. You can also find it and compare prices using this link to Know’s Shop, which shows all the stores I recommend that carry this product.
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Best Performer
ENVE SES 4.5 – STILL STANDS ABOVE
The second-generation ENVE SES 4.5, born the SES 4.5 AR, continues to stand above all other all-around wheels in the performance carbon disc wheelset price category (US$2000/£1600/€2000 to $3000/£2300/€3000).
In my on-the-road testing, I’ve found the SES 4.5 performs as well or better on the combination of factors I think matter most to your speed and enjoyment of road cycling wheels. It’s fast, stable, stiff, comfortable, responsive, and versatile. It’s got it all.
And it’s just a hell of a lot of fun to ride. The ENVE SES 4.5 seems to glide along the road with no drama as you accelerate from a start, transition from flats to hills, and take corners at high speed. It’s unbothered by crosswinds and coasts with nary a sound from the freehub.
To be clear, the ENVE 4.5 is no recreational stroller. Rather, it’s seriously fast, deceptively so with its relatively modest looks and quiet demeanor.
I rode the new 4.5 for the first time on a recovery ride at the end of a week of training full of hard anaerobic and VO2 max intervals. “Let’s just ease into it,” I told myself, never wanting to judge a wheelset I’m testing for the first time on a hard day in the saddle.
Despite being physically and mentally tired, riding the ENVE SES 4.5 re-energized me. It responded quickly and easily to my efforts, flowed through corners, and smoothed hills and rough roads.
As I put it through harder efforts in the days that followed – VO2 intervals, 7% climbs, and on-my-limit group rides – the 4.5’s performance helped me be at my best, or at least better than on other days with other wheels rolling beneath me.
Regardless of the specs, which I’ll get to in a minute, the ENVE SES 4.5 feels light and lively and maintains my momentum in the 20mph/32mph to 25mph/40mph speed range incredibly well.
It’s somewhat surprising that a second-generation wheelset, little changed from one introduced six years before, could still be the Best Performer among its all-around carbon disc wheelset peers. While others have certainly improved on individual performance criteria I use in evaluating wheels, none have reached the same level as the ENVE 4.5 across all of them.
If performance balance is a measure of all-around wheels and great performance across all criteria is the mark of the best, then the ENVE 4.5 still stands atop the rest.
My spec-obsessed evil twin always wants to get in the way of my performance-focused good twin and influence you. Well, I’ll give him some space to speak up here.
For years one of the key differences between the original 4.5 AR and most other road wheelsets was its 25mm inside width. That continues with the new 4.5 (25.3mm per my measurement) and is why I can run my tire pressure low to get the comfort I enjoy even on rough paved and dirt road surfaces. Other wheelmakers, notably Zipp and Bontrager, now make rims with 23mm inside widths for wheels of similar depth, while most other brands still make road disc brake wheelsets with a 21mm inside width.
On the outside, the 4.5 rims have widened a couple of millimeters per my measurements from the 4.5 AR to 32.8mm for the front wheel and 32.4mm for the rear. The rims have also gotten about 1.5 mm deeper, now 51.8mm front and 56.5mm rear.
The wider, deeper rims, says ENVE, come from adding their anti-pinch-flat design to the 4.5, something the SES 3.4 AR (now the SES 3.4) has had since it was introduced. Whatever, I’ll take the added width and depth if it improves the performance.
It seems so. With the slightly wider rims, more models of 28mm labeled tires can be used on the 4.5 at lower pressures to give you optimal aero drag and rolling resistance performance and better comfort across rough roads. I get into all the details of that in my tubeless tire review.
Note also that the front and rear wheels have different dimensions and also different shapes. The front wheel has a U-shaped profile designed to improve its stability in crosswinds, while the rear is deeper and has a V-shaped one to improve its aero performance.
In the last couple of years, Roval, Hunt, and Parcours have introduced wheelsets with different front and rear dimensions and profiles, though none are as wide internally as the 4.5.
ENVE’s measurements show the average SES 4.5 weighs about 100 grams less overall than the 4.5 AR did and, more importantly, their deeper, wider rims weigh about 110 grams less than the first-generation ones.
My demo ENVE 4.5 wheelset came in at 1518 grams with the Shimano/SRAM 11-speed HG freehub (a SRAM XDR 12-speed one weighs about 20 less) and with the wheels taped but with no valve stems in place. That still puts it about 50 grams heavier than the actual weights of the narrower and shallower Bontrager RSL 51 and Campagnolo Bora Ultra 45 wheelsets and 140 grams more than the US$4200 Zipp 454 NSW. The difference accelerating from a dead stop is minimally better with the Bontrager and Campy and more noticeably so with the Zipp.
While more and more rims come through pre-taped with valve stems in place these days, ENVE continues to send you tape and stems to install yourself. This video demonstrates how to install ENVE tape; ignore the part at the beginning about using clincher tires – it doesn’t apply to the current line of SES wheels.
ENVE justifies this DIY approach by wanting to give you or your retailer the option to adjust the internal nipples for spoke tension and wheel true before applying the tape that covers access to the nipples. Internal nipples reduce the drag of external ones by 0.75 watts per wheel in ENVE’s wind tunnel tests. It’s nothing to sneeze at for those who believe in marginal gains.
I don’t know about you, but even with all the wheels I test, I’ve never found the need to have a tension meter or trueing stand on my workbench. Hand and eye inspection can detect true outliers, and even with them, I’m not wrench enough to start messing with my spoke nipples.
I expect that ENVE ships very few wheels that are out of tolerance. Heck, they were among the first to offer 5-year parts and labor warranties on their wheels. So, they likely have a pretty good fix on the quality of their wheels, all of which are made in their United States factory. I would think most of us and our store mechanics would prefer ENVE tape their rims before shipping them to our doorsteps, even though some of us have become pretty good at taping them ourselves over the years.
If a wheel were to come in with spoke tension or true that’s not up to spec, I believe their warranty should pay a trained mechanic to adjust the nipples and retape the rim.
Note also that the ENVE SES 4.5 (and all current ENVE SES and Foundation wheels) use hookless rims and require tubeless tires whether you use sealant or tubes inside. Fortunately, the list of compatible tires for that combination is growing longer and longer and includes the top-performing tires from most brands. You can see the list of compatible and incompatible tires per ENVE testing.
For those of you still resistant to hookless rims because you want to be able to inflate your tires as high as you like without the worry of them blowing off, please understand a few things about the SES 4.5 wheels.
First, with the 4.5’s 25mm inside width, you won’t want to inflate your tires past the maximum recommended pressure of 80psi, even if you weigh the maximum recommended rider weight of 250lbs/113kg. They’ll be increasingly uncomfortable and slower above the recommended pressures shown in ENVE’s chart. As you can see there, it shows only 67 psi as the starting tire pressure recommended for the heaviest riders.
Second, ENVE has been making hookless rims and testing them with tubeless tires for years. For their 25mm inside width rims, they have established 80psi as the maximum recommended tire pressure and 90psi for their 21mm inside width hookless rims. Both of these pressure levels are higher than the ETRTO and ISO 5 bar, 72.5 psi standard for hookless rims of any width.
And ENVE only lists tires as compatible if they stay on their rims in their tests through 150% of the maximum recommended pressure. So I think there’s plenty of performance and comfort motivation to keep your tires well below the max pressure and a pretty good safety zone if you revert to your 20-year younger self in the presence of a tire pump on an off day.
Unlike earlier incarnations of SES wheels, where you could order Chris King, Industry Nine, DT Swiss, or ENVE’s own branded hub with carbon shells, there is only one hubset available on the 4.5.
Fortunately, it’s the ENVE hub with alloy hub shells, a direct drive model they’ve been putting on most of their wheels for the last few years. These are the same ones I’ve used with no issues (and performed no maintenance on) with the ENVE SES 5.6 and 3.4 AR wheelsets I bought to benchmark other brands of wheels with performance goals similar to those.
You can order the 4.5 with either an HG, XDR, or N3W freehub body compatible with your Shimano/SRAM 11-speed, SRAM AXS 12-speed, or Campagnolo groupset.
Finally, some ENVE wheelsets I’ve tested in the past have come through with hair-thin, 2-3mm long white lines in the carbon accumulated at random places along the rim’s spoke edge. While hardly visible unless you go around looking for such things (I do), I and some readers found this rather annoying and even worrisome.
The issue turns out to be only a cosmetic one, apparently caused by an oxidation side effect of the hardening agent used in the resin. While a sample size of one, the new SES 4.5 I tested had almost none of these white lines. ENVE is using a new resin in their new line of SES wheels that, in part, has enabled them to reduce the rim weight but also is supposed to address the oxidation issue that caused the white lines in the earlier resin.
We’ll keep an eye on this. Literally.
The ENVE SES 4.5 price has gone up US$300 to US$2850, and current exchange rates make it RRP £3300, €3800, though often sells for less in those currencies. It is available using these links to recommended stores Performance Bike, BTD (BikeTiresDirect), Merlin, and Sigma Sports. It’s hard to justify – you’ll need to make peace with your own budget watchdogs – but it’s also hard to say no to a wheelset that still stands above its competition.
BONTRAGER AEOLUS RSL 51 TLR – THE DEFINITION OF AN ALL-AROUND ROAD DISC WHEELSET
It’s easy to judge any wheelset by looking at what it does well, what it doesn’t, what it costs, and what it looks like. And, if you’re into design and engineering, add specs and tech to your evaluation.
I’ll get to much of that. But when it comes to the Bontrager Aeolus RSL 51 TLR, let me start with the bottom line.
The RSL 51 is the definition of a modern all-around road disc wheelset.
This mid-depth Bontrager does most of the things road cycling enthusiasts like you and me should look for if we can only buy one carbon disc wheelset. You can train with it at speed on various terrain, enjoy friendly competition against your buds riding hard on group rides, and do long-distance events in comfort. It doesn’t have any obvious weaknesses.
Its glossy finish and branding look good without being loud, it has a strong warranty and dealer network, and it’s priced in the same ballpark as other, less well-rounded alternatives.
The RSL 51’s specs are all modern without offending anyone. It uses the updated model of the well-established DT Swiss 240 hubs (Ratchet EXP) and has rims that are wider than most all-around carbon disc wheels (23.2mm internal, 30.7mm external), as deep as most go these days (51.1mm), and are hooked for riding with tubeless or clincher tires.
And at 1441 grams on my scale with taped rims rather than the weighty plastic rim strips installed, they are marginally lighter (about 20 to 120 grams) than most in this category.
No, the RSL 51 will not outperform a climbing wheelset going up alpine roads or aero wheels in crit race or the best gravel wheels riding off-road. For that, you’ll need all-around wheels with those strengths but other weaknesses or wheels designed uniquely for those types of events or terrain.
But, for an all-around carbon disc wheelset, my fellow testers Nate, Miles, and I found the Bontrager Aeolus RSL 51 TLR do climb quite well. Descending at high speeds is also a confident experience thanks to their excellent handling and unfazed reaction to side winds.
That good handling extends to flat roads where the RSL 51 tracked well through corners paired up with the 28c Bontrager R3 Hard-Case Lite and 25c Michelin Power Road tubeless tires we mounted on them.
Acceleration is another one of RSL 51’s strengths. Combined with their handling skills, this makes for a very responsive wheelset, important when keeping up with moves on a group ride and staying out of trouble in a paceline.
Despite their few mm of added depth, we didn’t find they were any faster or held their speed any better than other all-around disc wheels we’ve tested. And while they accelerate well and are stiff enough for mere enthusiast mortals like me, they aren’t the kind of max stiffness wheels you want for the kind of > 1000-watt sprints you might do in a crit. Bontrager does make wheels for that (see my review of the RSL62), but these aren’t them.
On long rides, the RSL 51 is quite comfortable and better than most in this category. The new DT240 Ratchet EXP hub is louder than its predecessor when freewheeling but not overly so and it’s a relatively low-frequency sound that I don’t find annoying.
At US$2700, £2100, €2500, the Bontrager Aeolus RSL 51 certainly isn’t cheap but is one of the better all-around wheels we’ve ridden. Using these links, you can order them from Bontrager and Sigma Sports.
CADEX 50 ULTRA – A GOOD OPTION FOR LUMPY RACES
The Cadex 50 Ultra’s stiffness is central to its performance. My fellow tester Miles, a P12 road racer, and I, a B-group rider, took advantage of that stiffness in a range of ways during our tests of this wheelset.
Miles used it to cover a lot of accelerations in road races and crits. During one 65-mile road race filled with surges, a promising break went away that he didn’t initially get into. He used the Cadex 50 Ultra’s stiffness on an uphill kicker to close a 10-second gap to that group.
The wheelset inspired confidence in both of us with its quick handling and precise cornering. For Miles, he could more easily pick his way through traffic in crits and dive into downhill corners in lumpy road races.
I was able to avoid a crash thanks to the Cadex 50 Ultra’s cornering precision. The rider I was following over-cooked a downhill turn and I cut a tighter radius on these wheels to safely get inside of his arc. I’m not sure I could have pulled that off with most wheelsets I’ve tested.
Add strong climbing to the list of this wheelset’s assets. Its stiff and relatively lightweight combination of rims, hubs, and carbon spokes (1402g as measured with an HG freehub) undoubtedly contributes to its ability to go uphill.
But, the Cadex 50 Ultra also has liabilities that limit its performance beyond road races and criteriums on rolling terrain.
While it helps get you up to speed very quickly, this wheelset doesn’t carry your speed as well as other, high-end race and all-around ones.
And on even moderately windy days (10 mph/16kph), I found the Cadex 50 Ultra front wheel moving all around. Perhaps they do better at higher speeds, as Miles didn’t take issue with their crosswind stability riding this wheelset during his spring training and racing season.
We both agreed that these aren’t very compliant wheels, the kind you’d find comfortable over a 3+ hour ride. As a hookless wheelset that’s wide enough (22.5mm inside width) to ride in the mid-50psi range with 28mm tubeless tires (we used Continental Grand Prix 5000 S TR) for our similar 150lb/68kg or so weight, this Cadex’s compliance was disappointing.
At 60psi, the ride was harsh. Below the low 50s, it was mushy. And at the pressures in between in search of the best combination of comfort and handling, you still feel everything through the wheels, though they don’t jolt you.
Blame the below-average compliance of the Cadex 50 Ultra on the carbon spokes Cadex uses to give it above-average responsiveness and handling. While I’ve not tested them all, I’ve yet to ride a wheelset with carbon spokes that are both laterally stiff and vertically compliant.
The freehub Cadex uses on the 50 Ultra is also louder than most. When I apologized for it to the rider in front of me in a paceline, he immediately responded, “Yeah, what is that?” While some cyclists like an audible freehub, the Cadex 50 Ultra is more vocal than a Chris King or i9 and right up there with the most boisterous of those used on the less expensive wheels coming from Chinese factories.
If you regularly compete in lumpy, punchy races where quick maneuvering and repeated accelerations are key to your performance, the Cadex 50 Ultra is a good option. For a broader range of riding and racing, there are better choices in the all-around performance wheelset category.
The Cadex 50 Ultra wheelset retails for US$3500, £2650, €2850 and is available from BTD (Bike Tires Direct), Performance Bike, and Cyclestore.
CAMPAGNOLO BORA ULTRA WTO 45 – MORE THAN SKIN DEEP
Like most Campagnolo kit, it’s hard not to be taken by the stunning beauty and engineering precision of the Bora Ultra WTO 45 wheelset. The rich black rim finish, hourglass hub shell, recessed spoke nipples, and modest yet proud graphics draw you in.
As with anything as alluring as this wheelset, I was hopeful that its performance would be just as beautiful and precise.
In some ways, it is.
Judging from how little effort is needed to get it up to speed, the Bora Ultra WTO 45 feels like a fast disc brake wheelset. It doesn’t hold that speed as easily as an aero wheelset or the fastest all-around wheels do on a flat or rolling course. But, the lively and responsive feel of this Campy makes it feel quite fast when you accelerate from a stop or out of a corner.
The Campagnolo hubs roll incredibly smoothly, and the freehub is absolutely silent. I felt alone with my thoughts doing a soul ride or set of hard interval workouts on the Bora Ultra WTO 45. For me, that’s generally a good thing. However, if you prefer being accompanied by the sounds coming out of your freehub or drivetrain, you’ll not get that kind of collaboration from this wheelset.
Equally distinctive, and perhaps more importantly, climbing well is a true partnership with these Campags. They go up ramps and steeper pitches with relative ease.
At 1445 grams on my scale with valve stems in place, the Ultra version of the Bora WTO 45 actually weighs about 70 grams less than the non-Ultra model of the Bora WTO 33 we’ve reviewed. While it doesn’t weigh as little as a pure climbing disc brake wheelset, the Ultra 45’s feel as energetic going uphill as one that is.
In addition to its climbing ability, the Bora Ultra WTO 45 wheelset is quite responsive and tracks with great precision through corners. It’s a laterally stiff setup that accelerates well when called upon. My fellow tester and competitive racer Miles found them extremely stiff compared with the other wheels he’s ridden with “zero flex” sprinting on the flats or up a steep climb.
Our test period included several days when the wind blew 15mph/25kph. In those conditions, you must work with even the most stable all-around wheels to keep things upright. Coming from the side at those wind speeds, the Bora Ultra WTO 45 also gets pushed. The front wheel leans steadily away from the wind rather than with an erratic reaction. Counter-steering in the direction of the wind got me through it.
But on milder days when the wind isn’t blowing that strong or steady, it slices through the winds and gusts quite well with no steering or stabilizing adjustment required.
While sufficiently comfortable for a race-oriented wheelset, especially with the 25mm Veloflex Corsa TLR tubeless cotton (puncture belt equipped) tires we used for this test, you can’t easily optimize them for both speed and comfort on all paved surfaces given their 19.0 mm inside, 26.3 mm outside rim dimensions.
The 25mm Veloflex and Continental Grand Prix 5000 S TR I mounted to these wheels both measure sufficiently narrower than the rim width, even at 80psi. That will give you ideal aero performance over the lifetime of the tires. The other 25mm tubeless tires and all the 28mm ones we installed on this wheelset are or will become wider than the rims and add aero drag (see measurements here).
With 25mm tires installed and at the pressure required for that width tire and your weight, Miles and I didn’t find these Campys to ride either plush or harsh. They were comfortable enough even on the 80-mile ride Miles took them on and not a noticeable benefit or drawback on the many 2-hour rides we each did.
If comfort is more important than speed or the road surface you ride is better with a wider tire inflated at lower pressure, you can certainly use 28mm tires on these wheels and perhaps make up for the added aero drag with reduced vibration loss rolling resistance depending on your speed and riding surface. But be careful not to drop the pressure too low to avoid pinch flatting or rolling the tire in a hard cornering maneuver on these narrower wheels.
I’ll admit to becoming somewhat spoiled riding a tubeless, carbon disc wheelset with 23mm to 25mm inside rim widths and/or outside 30mm+ ones that are well suited for 28mm wide tires. While there’s a good deal of science behind how wide wheels and wide tires can make you faster, I like to think of it as having my reduced aero drag and rolling resistance layer cake and comfort icing too.
US brands ENVE, Bontrager, and Zipp have been among the larger wheelmakers in this wider rim movement. The major EU brands Campagnolo and DT Swiss have stayed with narrower rims across their best-performing, mid-depth, and aero wheelsets. Likely tracking the introduction and acceptance of disc brake bikes in these regions, Campag and DT also continue to make the most of their top wheelsets in both disc and rim brake models.
I’m old enough to remember that narrower wheels can go fast too. Riding the Bora Ultra WTO 45 indeed reminds me of that when it comes time to accelerate or head uphill. At US$3000/£2700/€3000 at Merlin and Sigma Sports or more, depending on the freehub you use, I’m also reminded that it’s a beautiful, iconic Campagnolo brand wheelset that you’re paying for.
Without going deep into all the tech and spec details (performance is our jam at In The Know Cycling), know that you can get the non-Ultra version, aka the Bora WTO 45, for a good amount less. While it has essentially the same rim profile, it’s made with a different mix of carbon and resin, uses a different molding process that requires some post-molding filling and finishing and uses alloy hub shells. It weighs about 100 grams more, most of that in the rims.
The Bora WTO 45 disc brake sells for about US$2500/£1700/€2250 depending on your freehub choice. Use these links to BTD (BikeTiresDirect), and Merlin.
And if you’re as loyal to your rim brake bike as many are to all things Campagnolo, the Bora WTO 45 rim brake model shares many of the same attributes (rim profile, hubset, finish) as the disc brake version and Campagnolo rim brake wheels have long been known for the excellent brake track performance. It’s available for about US$2100/£1675/€2030 at this link to Merlin.
DT SWISS ERC 1400 – AN ENDURANCE RIDER’S WHEELSET
The DT Swiss ERC 1400 DICUT 45 is the endurance rider’s all-around wheelset.
While not a standout on any particular performance characteristic, it does everything my fellow testers Nate, Miles, and I look for from an endurance wheelset.
Riding the ERC 1400 on 50-mile group rides, I can confidently accelerate, climb, pull, corner, and comfortably roll along in the paceline.
Miles likes this DT Swiss wheelset’s ability to do almost anything on the road. While not the fastest wheelset in the kind of sprint, gap-closing, or long, hard efforts where Miles excels, it hangs in there against other all-arounders in the performance-carbon price range on his fast rides and races and performs notably better than value-carbon, mid-depth wheelsets he’s ridden in similar situations.
You can use clincher or tubeless tires on the ERC 1400’s rims that measure just a bit over 22mm wide between the bead hooks. Using 28mm Continental Grand Prix 5000 S TR tubeless tires with sealant on these rims, Miles and I found the wheels most comfortable at inflation pressures 5 to 10 psi lower than suggested by calculators like the SRAM Tire Pressure Guide.
The rim designed by their partner Swiss Side is straightforward – the same front and rear wheel dimensions, not overly wide (28.5mm external), and with a standard V-U rim profile. Yet, the ERC 1400 remains reassuringly stable in side winds, as good as those using unique designs to keep you riding steadily on a windy day.
And while it doesn’t roll as fast as other, slightly deeper, and differently shaped all-arounders like the Zipp 454 NSW or ENVE SES 4.5 and isn’t as responsive as lighter, stiffer wheels in this category like the Cadex 50 Ultra or Campagnolo Bora Ultra WTO 45, you do feel the power you put into the ERC 1400 driving through the wheels when accelerating and cornering.
Of course, the ERC 1400’s other components – the DT Swiss 240 Ratchet EXP 36 hubs and aero comp straight pull, bladed spokes – and the company’s reliability track record are all part of the package. The latest 240 freehub coasts a bit louder than its predecessor but isn’t as loud as the pleasing sound of a Chris King freehub or as noisy and annoying as those on lower-priced wheels we’ve tested from Hunt or Scribe.
If you are looking for wheels to race on, you might want more performance – snappier, better at holding your speed, lighter on climbs – than what the ERC 1400 offers. You’ll surely pay more for them.
At the other end of the range, if you are principally a recreational cruiser, you might want a more comfortable and forgiving wheelset. While you wouldn’t likely get the versatility and all-around performance of the ERC 1400, you could find that comfort at a lower price point.
But if you are an endurance rider, keeping up a good pace on half or all-day rides across a variety of road terrain, you’ll find it hard to beat the combination of things the ERC 1400 does well at the price it sells for.
You can order the DT Swiss ERC 1400 DICUT 45 for US$2400, £1800, €2325 at REI, Sigma Sports, and Amazon.
Note that DT Swiss makes an ERC 1100 DICUT 45 with a 180 hubset instead of the 240 used in the ERC 1400. It also sells 35mm deep versions of the ERC 1100 and ERC 1400 in 700c and 650b rim diameters
SHIMANO DURA-ACE C50 – A RACE-FOCUSED ALL-AROUND
The Shimano Dura-Ace C50 tubeless wheelset, also known (by nerds) as the Shimano WH-R9270-C50-TL, combines the aerodynamics, stiffness, and responsiveness needed to excel in crits and road races on rolling terrain. It also offers enough compliance and stability to do long rides with occasionally imperfect pavement and variable weather.
For this review, my fellow tester Miles rode the Dura-Ace C50s while training for and riding in his spring race series. Fellow tester Aiyana, a light and fast former racer, evaluated these same wheels in the early spring before the roads were cleaned and patched, and while the winds were still a prominent feature on many of her rides.
Both remarked on the C50’s excellent speed on rolling, paved terrain, and comfort on 4-hour training rides, most of which included some climbing. The wheelset’s handling ability gave Aiyana great confidence in navigating the typical potholes and road debris of our New England spring road conditions.
The Dura-Ace C50’s versatility compares well to other all-around road wheels but doesn’t rival wider “all-road” wheels that perform equally well on road and gravel surfaces, many of which would be better for the longest road rides.
This Shimano wheelset shines on clean, rolling roads and at fast speeds. While Miles is always competitive in his age group races, he strung together a series of wins on the Dura-Ace C50 at the Killington Stage Race, Nutmeg Criterium, and Tour of America’s Dairyland crit series that had me wondering if he’d ever part with the wheels so I could send them back to BTD (BikeTiresDirect), who shared them with us for this review. (He did then I did.)
Miles and Aiyana separately praised the C50’s superior aero performance, or at least our real-world way to evaluate that characteristic, a wheelset’s ability to hold its momentum at 20mph/32kph and above when riding into the wind. I found it mildly surprising that the Dura-Ace’s 21.5mm internal and 28.2mm external width rims outperformed several wider and similar width ones, each mounted with a pair of 28mm Continental Grand Prix 5000 S TR tires we use when comparing wheels. This again proves the value of riding the wheels rather than reading the specs or lab test data when choosing between them.
In addition to being very aero, the Shimano Dura-Ace C50 wheels are also amongst the most stable in windy conditions compared to others in the all-around category. Aiyana felt like the wheels were almost meant for the highly variable winds and rain she rode through on several rides. Miles reported smooth sailing in windy conditions and that he never felt the wind grab the front wheel the way it does others.
Miles heaped his highest praise on the Dura-Ace C50’s stiffness and responsiveness. Impressively fast in a straight-line sprint. So responsive going into and out of corners.
He felt they were nearly perfect for the fast, sprint-filled races that he enjoys.
As Miles reported, “I have total confidence these wheels will get me wherever I want to go and get there fast. In a race, I can vault forward on the road whenever I need to, sprint up to wheels I want to be on, and hold my speed really well.”
Perhaps because she’s lighter and putting less power into the C50 than Miles does, Aiyana didn’t sense the same snap or spring from the Dura-Ace C50. Instead, she welcomed their combination of aero speed, smooth rolling, and comfort.
While it’s rare to see either Miles or Aiyana coasting, they reported that when they do, the C50’s freehub (only available for use with Shimano 12-speed groupsets) is louder than most.
At US$2100 from BTD (BikeTiresDirect) and Performance Bike, and £1800 and €2300 at Sigma Sports, the Shimano Dura-Ace C50 is a relative bargain compared to other all-around wheels we’ve reviewed from the major brands.
It doesn’t quite carry speed like ENVE SES 4.5 or Zipp 454 NSW or roll as feathery as those wheels or the ENVE SES 3.4 and Zipp 353 NSW. But these Shimanos are right up there, just behind those sets. And, if you don’t want to spend what those Zipp and ENVE wheels will cost you, there’s no better road race-focused all-around wheelset alternative we’ve tested to date than the Shimano Dura-Ace C50.
ROVAL RAPIDE CLX II – RACE OR FUN MODE?
The Roval Rapide CLX II presents enthusiasts with an existential question about our cycling: is it our purpose to ride like we’re racing or ride like we’re having serious fun?
Of course, the two can sometimes be the same.
But riding in race mode is about getting to the finish first, whereas riding in serious fun mode is about having as much fun as anyone.
I raise this question because, for me, the Roval Rapide CLX II performs differently on several criteria depending on whether I use a 26mm tire that Roval recommends to optimize this wheelset’s aero performance or a 28mm tire that I generally prefer to ride for overall performance (i.e., versatility, aero, stability, stiffness, compliance, responsiveness).
To evaluate the Rapide CLX II wheels, I used Specialized’s 26mm S-Works Turbo RapidAir 2Bliss Ready T2/T5 (or “RapidAir”) and their 28mm S-Works Turbo 2BR 2Bliss Ready T2/T5 (or “2BR”) both introduced by Roval’s parent company on the same day as the Rapide.
Note that the Rapide CLX II is a tubeless-ready carbon disc wheelset, whereas the CLX was not approved for tubeless tires. While you can use clincher tires with tubes on these CLX II wheels as they have hooked rims, the best tubeless tires with puncture protection belts, including the RapidAir, have lower tire loss rolling resistance than clincher ones in drum testing that simulate road conditions.
Using these Specialized tires was the closest I could come to comparing the Rapide wheels with the same tires at different widths. They don’t (yet) make a 28mm size in the latest version of the RapidAir. And the 28mm 2BR uses the same compound as the RapidAir, just with an additional casing layer.
Yes, I did test the Rapide CLX II with 28mm wide Continental Grand Prix 5000 S TR tires but not initially (more on this below). In part, that’s because Roval and Specialized designed these wheels and tires to work together (Rapide & RapidAir). Also, the prior generation RapidAir was one of my and fellow testers’ highest-rated tubeless tires across a range of wheelsets. In my judgment, the new RapidAir remains one of the best.
Interestingly, I can’t tell any difference in how well the Rapide holds its momentum for a given level of effort at speeds above 20mph/32kph – my surrogate for aero performance – with the 26mm RapidAir vs. the 28mm 2BR tire in warm temps. And neither does as well as the ENVE SES 4.5 (with 28mm Schwalbe Pro One TLE tires ) or Zipp 454 NSW (with a 25mm front tire, 28mm rear Schwalbes) against this performance criterion.
With the 26mm RapidAir tires mounted, the Rapide CLX II feels light and reactive. The wheels are very lively accelerating on a straight, coming out of a turn, and heading up a hill. They are very responsive and both fast and fun in these situations, nearly as much as the category-leading Zipp 454 NSW.
With the 28mm 2BR, that responsiveness is muted a bit and more on par with the average all-around wheelset. Is it the added 60g/tire of the 28mm tires? I don’t know, but I doubt it. The 28mm 2BR weighs essentially the same as the prior model 28mm RapidAir and only about 35g/tire more than the 28mm GP5K S TR. And aero is just as important as weight in acceleration. So maybe it’s just that the 26mm tires are a more aero setup.
The Roval Rapide CLX II’s compliance and handling are notably better, however, with the 28mm tires. No hot take there. A 10psi lower pressure and a wider contact patch undoubtedly explain that.
Regardless, the Roval Rapide CLX II’s “race-feel” comfort with 26mm tires (the setup I use to compare the Roval’s performance criteria against other wheelsets in this category) is on par with the average all-around wheelset and is certainly fine for the 50+ mile rides I did on these hoops.
I initially tested the Rapide carbon disc wheels during the late summer and fall months when there were enough days of 10-20mph, often swirling winds, to really put the wheels’ sidewind management to the test. And they performed admirably, as stable as the ENVE 4.5 and Bontrager RSL 51.
Curiously though, I did feel a few rather erratic tugs on the front wheel with the 26mm tires mounted on days when the winds were their strongest, something I never felt with the 28mm tires on similarly windy days. The tugs weren’t often big enough to make me back off of my pace; it was just something I took note of.
While I don’t know if it is related, the Specialized tire product manager did tell me their testing showed the 26mm tires were more aerodynamic on the Rapide wheels in head-on winds while 28s were more aero in crosswinds, though he wouldn’t share any details of the aero differences, wind angles, or testing protocol.
Looking at the wheels while riding along in the saddle, both size tires appear rather odd to me in the Rapide’s front rim. That rim measured 34.9mm at its widest. I’m sure there’s some engineering (or perhaps, marketing) explanation for the front wheel’s width, but it’s still weird.
The rear is a more “normal” 30.4mm outside, while both rims measure 21.0mm between the hooks.
And, like the ENVE SES wheels that started this whole trend, the Roval Rapide CLX II’s front wheel has a blunt nose spoke edge and measures 51.5mm deep, while the 60.3mm deep rear has more of a traditional V-shaped spoke edge and a toroidal rim profile.
The following spring, I mounted up the 28mm Continental Grand Prix 5000 S TR tires on the Rapide CLXII. They clearly felt faster and more responsive than with the 28mm 2BR and gave me the added comfort and handling you get over a 26mm RapidAir.
Until Specialized comes out with a 28mm RapidAir, which I expect they will do eventually, I’d recommend riding the 28mm Conti tires over the 26mm RapidAir with this wheelset in both race and fun mode.
Finally, I’ll note three other considerations that may affect your decision about buying this wheelset.
First, I needed to use tire levers to install the Specialized, Continental, Schwalbe, and Michelin 25/26mm and 28mm tires included in my best tubeless road tires review on the Roval Rapide CLX II front and rear rims. In most cases, I don’t need to use levers with the eight rims of varying inside and outside widths I use to compare the ease of tire installation.
While I can’t measure it, I can only guess that Roval makes the Rapide CLX II wheels to the larger end of the rim diameter standard, aka the ETRTO and ISO 622mm ±0.5 mm rim bead seat diameter tolerance range, or has a shallower center channel. If so, that’s not unsurprising, considering that Roval’s first attempt at making a tubeless Rapide (the Rapide CLX) created an unacceptable chance of tubeless tire blowouts due to claimed structural issues in the rim.
So, perhaps they are being more conservative with the Roval Rapide CLX II dimensions to create a tighter fit between the tire and updated rims, something I can’t fault them for. And, needing to use a tire lever is a minor inconvenience rather than a deal breaker.
Secondly, the DT Swiss 180 Ratchet EXP internals used in the rear hub on this new Roval Rapide CLX II carbon disc wheelset make its freehub pleasantly quiet while coasting with a well-maintained chain. That’s different than the DT Swiss 240 EXP freehubs that are more commonly used on carbon disc wheels these days and are far louder than their nearly quiet DT 240 predecessor, though not annoyingly so.
So, you’ve got choices with the Roval Rapide CLX II depending on your purpose in life cycling and commitment to Specialized tires. You can race with primo aero performance and responsiveness on 26mm Specialized RapidAir tires. Or, you can ride fast and have serious fun on the same wheels with 28mm Specialized 2BR tires for better handling, crosswind stability, and comfort.
Or, you can let your mind and legs decide which mode you want to ride in with the 28mm Conti GP 5K S tires now and likely the 28mm Specialized 28mm RapidAir if and when they are introduced.
Either way, the Roval Rapide CLX II sells for US$2800, £2250, €3000. That puts it in a similar price range as the ENVE and Bontrager all-around wheelsets. You can order the Rapide using these links to recommended stores Performance Bike and Sigma Sports.
If you generally like what the Rapide represents but want to save a boatload of money, the Roval Rapide CL II – no “X” in the name – is another option.
The CL II sells for $1750, £1400, €1800, considerably less than the CLX II. It uses the same rims as the CLX II but is equipped with slightly heavier and less aero yet still very capable and always quiet DT Swiss 350 hubs and lower spec, round DT Competition Race spokes instead of the more aero, bladed DT Aerolite on the CLX II.
I haven’t tested the CL II but based on the hub and spokes used, likely not as fast or responsive as the CLX II.
The Roval Rapide CL II is available using these links to Performance Bike and Sigma Sports.
WHY I MAY NOT HAVE INCLUDED WHEELSETS YOU’VE HEARD ABOUT
Carbon disc wheelsets are a fast-growing and fast-changing category of cycling gear. The generation chart displayed near the top of this review shows how much has changed in the last few years.
In this post, you’ve got the latest, best, all-around depth, carbon disc wheelsets that are widely available to consider in this category. Several others are sold in low volumes or supported only within a limited geographic region or both.
There are several wheelsets whose depth might suggest they might fit in the all-around category. This includes the ENVE SES 3.4, the Bontrager Aeolus RSL 37 Disc, and the Zipp Firecrest 303 Disc and 353 NSW. From our testing, you can certainly use them as all-arounders but they aren’t as fast on the flats and rollers as those in this review and are better as dedicated lightweight, climbing wheels. You can see my reviews of them here.
There are a growing number of deeper, mid-depth aero (55mm to 65mm) carbon disc wheelsets you can read about here. While specializing in high-speed riding, few approach the versatility of all-around road disc wheelsets reviewed here.
* * * * *
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Thanks, and enjoy your rides safely! Cheers, Steve
Hi Just read another article https://www.velonews.com/gear/what-is-the-fastest-bicycle-tubeless-wheel-and-tire-setup/
It seems that as you have found out in the real world, Tubeless and hookless rims are best. Thats also what Enve say, and their hooked rims are just older models that will be updated.
Tubeless is heavier, but it seems the rolling and aero benefits on hookless rims out weigh the weight, as you said.
So its Enve for me, with the lightest, lowest rolling resistance tyres I can find and 30ml of sealant.
🙂
Great read and very helpful in what is a minefield of what to get!
I’m after a a good general purpose disc wheelset for road (aero) and climbing.
Last weekend I was pretty sure Zipp 303 NSW were my dream wheels, but a week on I’m now confused with Zipp!!
My issues;
1 – This week they launched their new wheelset 303 Firecrest and website, but disc version of 303 NSW no longer appears on website only rim…..is disc discontinued?
2 – 303 Firecrest on specs seems lighter, is disc suitable, so would this be better than NSW or now only option?…..but being only 40 deep obviously not so aero, and lightness is one major factor to climbing ability, but so is stiffness, which again based on your report NSW was!
3 – would you consider new 303 Firecrest more suited to gravel, whereas NSW better for road?
4 – finally, other reason for new wheels is to go tubeless. New 303 Firecrest being straight wall and no hook are apparently easy to fit tyres ie. compressor not needed and track pump ok. So would this make the Firecrest a better choice over NSW?
As you can see now really confused with Zipp choices and so welcome any guidance you can provide – many thx
AP,
1 – Yes, Zipp will discontinue the Zipp 303 NSW disc at the end of June. You may still be able to find some in inventory at stores I recommend and link to in the review above.
2 – If you want to buy Zipp mid-depth road disc wheels, the 303 Firecrest and 303 S introduced a few weeks before are your only options. The 303 Firecrest weight, stiffness, aero, and other performance factors are only claimed at this point. I’ve not reviewed them and haven’t seen any actual posts from reviewers I trust that have ridden them enough to provide independent feedback on their actual performance. I have ridden the 303 S a handful of times but am not ready to comment on their performance yet. Mid-June review target.
3 – Yes, at least as far as the I can tell from the specs of the new Firecrest though Zipp says it is better suited than the NSW for both. Only real performance testing will tell
4 – No, in my experience, being hookless doesn’t make tires easier (or harder) to fit (mount, inflate, seal, dismount) or enable you to fit with only a track pump. Tire choice, tire – rim compatibility, the experience of the fitter are what matters.
I’m writing a post now about the questions and implications surrounding the Zipp announcements which will amplify my answers to your questions and related ones I’m getting from others. Steve
Many thx for your replies which has helped clarify a few things and look forward to your pending Zipp article concerning their announcement.
If thought is Firecrest is way forward, at least from Zipp, with ‘improvements’ over NSW, it would seem that’s the way to go, plus it’s cheaper, but feel I will wait now for an independent review, as in my head how can a 40 deep wheel have improved aero/speed retention than a deeper wheel?
……but guess they wouldn’t have stopped NSW production if performance was better?!…….but did not your article which suggested NSW was a pig to fit some tyres!
Many Thanks for your help Steve. I now have bought some Enve 3.4 SES with hooked rims! I actually bought some Foundation 45 too, but decided against them after my tyre options being so limited.
My 3.4 SES weigh 1449g – Inc Rim Tape (Ally Freehub)
The Foundation 45 weigh 1651g Inc Rim Tape ( I suspect much of the weight is in the steel freehub)
The lightest & Fastest everyday Tyre setup for each is;
Contis 5k (215g) & Tubo s tube (23g) = approx 480g in 25c
Schwalbe Pro One TLE (260g) & 30ml Sealant & Valve (11g) = approx 602g
At 80psi, they roll at conti 12.1w and Schwalbe 12.5w. Conti Tubeless are faster but heavier and not approved for the Enve Foundation 45. The schwalbe is the lightest fastest tyre approved for use.
So all in the 3.4’s are around 320g lighter with tyres set up, than the Enve Foundation 45, they can use any tubed or tubeless tyre, but are, even according to Enve, slightly less aero.
They do look lovely though, but cost quite a bit more.
Ps. I have conti race 28 light tubes in at the moment at 75g each, so only 200g lighter than the tubeless 45’s, but I needed some new tubes and the tubolito S, is only £20 extra a pair, so I thought I would try them. I might regret it, as there seems to be very mixed reviews.
I noticed the man (Wolfgang Arenz) who developed many of the top performing tyres, for conti, schwalbe and specialized, and now has his own brand, wokfpack, also sells a similar tube tube to the tubolito.
This is what he says,
“Ultra Lightweight TPU inner tube
Just 25g, this tube reduces the rolling resistance in a
Wolfpack Tyre by 8 watts compared to a 100g Butyl Tube.
Tested and re-tested on the track using both our cotton and race
tyre.
The cotton tyre coupled with this lightweight tube created a
lower rolling resistance than is possible with even a tubeless set up”.
Hi Steve,
Thanks for the great review and information! I have a set of ENVE 4.5 ARs and just love the wheels. I am building up a Cervelo R5 Disc which has tire clearance for 30mm tires but unfortunately the 28mm Schwalbe Pro One tubeless (2019 version) I currently have mounted on the ENVEs measure out at 31.5mm. I heard the 2020 Schwalbe Pro One’s are slightly narrower (truer to advertised) but was wondering if you have any advice on tires that fit closer to their 28mm measurement despite the 25mm internal width?
Thanks!
Ryan
Ryan, the new 28mm Schwalbe measure 29.0mm at 60psi on the 25mm internal width 3.4 AR wheels I recently reviewed. You can see the review of the tires and the best places to get them here: https://intheknowcycling.com/tubeless-bike-tires/#Prices. That said, the outside width of the 4.5 AR rims measure 31.2mm front and 30.7 rear so if you truly have only 30mm of room, I wouldn’t put those in the Cervelo. You typically want to allow 3-4mm either side of the rim or tire width (whichever is wider) to allow for deflection. I’d check with Cervelo to see how big the opening actually is in the chainstays, seat stays, and front fork for your wheels. Their suggestion of 30mm tires may already account for typical tire overage and deflection and the actual opening may be wide enough. Steve
Hi Steve! Thanks for the quick reply and all of your great information – definitely one of my favourite resources for bike information on the web. My Cervelo R5 is rated for tires up to 30mm factoring in a minimum of 4mm clearance on all sides. I broke out the callipers last night and the tightest point on the frame are the chain stays at 39mm. It looked a little tight with the 2019 Schwalbe’s when they would balloon out to nearly 32mm but the new Schwalbe’s with a measured width of 29.0mm should be perfect leaving lots of room. Thanks again for all of your hard work and insight!
Cool. Enjoy.
Hi steve, further questions about enve SES 4.5 AR. And im about to build a 2020 sworks tarmac sl6 disc.
you measured the 4.5 AR outside width is 31.2 mm. And with 28mm tire, it will balloon up to 32mm. Then, I read on the specialized web that tarmac sl6’s tire clearance is up to 30 mm. So, the 4.5 AR won’t fit into the tarmac?
Correct
Hello Steve!
Thank you so much for your in depth reviews and expertise! I am placing a pre-order for the Tarmac SL7 this week and I am hoping to create my dream build. As a rider, I live in the Mountains here in Utah. I love to train in the mountains and typically don’t ride my road bike unless I head out to climb in the canyons. The closest canyon is 11 miles and 3000 feet (5% grade) and the steepest canyon I occasionally climb is 8 miles 3000 feet (7%) grade. There is a healthy strava culture here and at 42 years old I can still compete 🙂 My weight is typically 80-82 kg and my FTP is around 320 watts. The wheels I’m looking at are ENVE 3.4 Disc, ENVE 3.4 AR Disc OR ENVE 4.5 AR Disc. What do you suggest? So many choices!!!
Thank you so much for your thoughts!
Paul
Paul, Take a look here for my reviews of the 3.4 and 3.4 AR. https://intheknowcycling.com/best-climbing-wheels/#Disc. If you’re not also riding gravel or planning to, I’d probably go with the 3.4 disc. Steve
Perfect!! I poured over both your reviews repeatedly!! It seems Nate, your climber—albeit lighter and stronger than me—didn’t love the AR version as much as the disc. Good to know!! I think that was my main question was when it came to AR vs disc. You would pick disc!! Okay!! Thank you so much for taking the time to answer!! ??. In the back of my mind, I had wondered if I was mostly climbing 5% grades if the 4.5 AR would give a bit more aero advantage overall, but I think since I spend so much time climbing it just makes sense to go with the 3.4!!! Thanks again!!
Hi,
I wonder if you have ridden Enve 45 (foundation series)? and how it compare with the original SES? And also, one of my wheelbuilder don’t reccomend ENVE due to theie super raw build quality. any comment regarding this?
Tommy, Hope to test those later this year. Don’t know what your wheel builder is referring to. Steve
So basically he mentioned about the finishing of the rim and this is what he said when I was texting him:
“They cut a big hole to extract the air pressure bladder used during the molding process. And patch the piece back later with glue”
He also mention it could be affecting the structural strength of the rim itself.
Never saw Enve rim in real life, but they’re on my list so, I’m trying to gather as much as information.
Thank you
Hi Steve,
Great site and reviews – hard to find a resource like this online.
I’m upgrading from rim to disc now (Tarmac) and from 303 NSW rim (the 1st gen ones with 17.25mm inner width) to a yet to be determined disc brake wheelset. If I upgrade at the shop, I can switch from the C38s that come with the bike to a CL 50 or CLX 50 just paying the difference in retail price. If I go with another wheelset, I’m paying full retail and may have difficulty where I’m located in getting good value on the C38s even selling them new, so we’re talking about a much bigger delta in price between Roval and Zipp/Enve. Would the CL or CLX 50 be a noticeable downgrade in terms of climbing and aero performance to the older 303 NSWs that I have now? My subjective experience of those 303 NSWs is that they are fast and snappy but perhaps slightly less snappy when hammering out of saddle and rocking bike than I would have wanted/expected for the price – at the same time, I’ve never tested (and can’t test) any other carbon wheelset, rim or disc, for comparison.
I’m roughly 72 kg and do a real mix (50:50) of hills and flats in the UK. I’ve never measured FTP but have measured 820W on a sprint before and guesstimating around 550-650W when I’m passing slow riders on the bi-directional narrow lanes. My hill rides are somewhat steep, avg 7 degree grade with 11 degree sections, and am out of saddle somewhat frequently. I average 29-33 km/h on the flats (bi-directional so averages headwind + tailwind). Also am a fair weather rider riding exclusively on pavement.
Hope that’s enough info, many thanks in advance for your advice.
Grant, I’d trade up and sell the wheelset if you find you need or want a stiffer wheelset or one that offers better performance. I don’t think the Roval will be any stiffer or responsive than the first gen Zipp NSW but the CLX 50 should be better on hills and more comfortable if you lower the pressure enough in a tubeless setup. Less so with the CL 50 though it’d be less of an investment and probably sell easier than the CLX 50. Either wheelset isn’t going to be as stiff as the Tarmac so you may find you want a stiffer one as you increase your FTP. 800 watts in a sprint and 30kmh average on the flats for your weight probably translates to a 250 FTP which shouldn’t tax the Rovals and show much difference in your aero performance. When you get to 300FTP+ and 35kmh, you may want to upgrade. Cheers, Steve
That makes sense, cheers.
What are your thoughts on the new Roval Rapide CLX?
Jamal, Honestly, it’s a head-scratcher. Clincher only and a front rim width that won’t fit between some/many forks. That said, Specialized does some very forward-looking things and others just to get a lot of looks. They are able to make speed/aero claims about the new Tarmac SL7 that they wouldn’t without that wheelset. I remember them doing something like that a few years ago with a new Venge that included a wheelset that that they never really promoted in the aftermarket and was replaced within a couple years with the CLX series intended for that market. I’m not doubting this wheelset, I just don’t know whether it’s the future or a flash. I’ll watch it but don’t have any plans to test it. Steve
Steve, I wish you would consider testing the new Roval Rapide CLX. It looks like an interesting wheelset for those of us who are not interested in going tubeless.
Great article, these [DT Swiss ERC-1100 Dicust 47 Disc] are currently on sale for $1500! [here]
Tom, Thanks for the tip. While I don’t have any inside info on the evolution of the ERC line, I will note that DT just announced updates of their ARC line. While I stand by my review of the ERC 1100 Dicut 47 db wheelset and agree that it’s a great deal at this low price, a price drops like this often comes when stores try to clear their inventory knowing they’ve ordered an updated model that will replace it. Steve
Great in-depth and independent articles!
Like Zipp 303 NSW’s but they might be to wide for frame – latest Zipp’s certainly are – hence now looking at other wheels and have Campag Bora WTO 45’s in mind.
Like you think they are a thing of beauty and your write up on the WTO 33 was favourable, but have you ever tested the 45 or have any comment?
FYI, wheels are intend for an Italian frame, so Campag and beauty would suit well, albeit not as wide as I would like, but that said only intended for solely road use.
Alan, haven’t tested the 45s but I’d imagine they are much the same as the 33s in terms of their Performance relative to other wheel sets. Steve
Happy to support you, so do you have a direct link to Merlin for the WTO 45 or a code to use @ checkout?
Alan, Much appreciated. Thanks for taking a pull and leading your fellow roadie readers by supporting the site buying through a store link. You can use this link for the WTO 45 disc at Merlin (no code). Cheers, Steve
I’d be interested to hear how the Shimano Dura Ace C40 Disc wheels compare with these.
Hi Steve!
first of all… thanks for all the information which can be found on you website!
i’m going to design my new bike (titanium, tailor-made, total custom) and in these days i’m collecting (…and getting mad with…) a lot of info about any components
now the core topic of my reply…
what do you think about Swiss Side wheelsets?
i saw there is a strong collaboration with DT Swiss and, if i’m right, they design for them the rims for their wheels
did you ever test or ride their wheels? have you ever heard reviews or opinions about them before? if not, based on the information on the swiss side website, would you recommend them or not?
i really love DT swiss wheelsets (at the moment ERC 1100 disc brake is at the top of the wheels-for-new-bike ranking) but i would like an opinion from an expert as you…
thank a lot!
Fausto, I’m afraid I’m no expert on DT Swiss and Swiss Side wheels. I only tested a few DT Swiss wheels including the ERC 1100 in this review. Never tested a Swiss Side wheelset. Their designs look a bit old and they are discounting all their wheels now. Maybe a new line is coming out… or the company will pursue another path? Steve
Torn on a few wheel choices, hoping to get your thoughts. Torn between the Knight Composite 50 Disc Clincher TLA 50s, new zipp 303 firecrest, and foundation 45s. Leaning towards the knights right now with the latter tied for second, but haven’t heard much on the knights. Thanks!
Graham, Sorry but I haven’t ridden any of them so I’m afraid I can’t add anything. Steve
Since someone has to ask…with the ink almost dry on the writeup of the Enve 65 wheelset, do you have a test of the Enve 45 on your Radar?
Bleeep….bleeep….bleeep….bleeep…. It’s out there. Getting closer. Will let you know when the periscope goes up.
Hello,
First off, many thanks for all your great reviews and buyer’s guides. Really valuable insights.
Had a quick question. I am thinking about getting a set of SES 4.5ARs for my new tarmac sl 7. I’m looking for something with strong aero features but that is optimized around a 28mm wheel. With that context, i was wondering whether, in your experience, the 4.5AR passes the 105% Rule for most tires (specifically the Pro One TLE or the Turbo RapidAir 2Bliss).
Cheers,
Kevin
Kevin, The 28mm Pro One TLE does pass the rule on the front wheel of the 4.5 AR. (Rear wheel rim is narrower than the front but doesn’t contribute to aero performance nearly as much as front so can disregard rule violation.) The 28mm RapidAir is on the border of the rule depending on the pressure and tire age (it barely passes at 60psi and <500 miles). I found the RapidAir a b*tch to get off the 4.5AR and 3.4AR hookless rims so would be swayed to the Pro One even though the Schwalbe doesn't wear as long. Steve
Thanks, Steve! Really appreciated. I’m a big fan of the Pro Ones so will probably just stick with it until Conti sorts outs its hookless difficulties.
One final Q: do you find it a bit odd that Zipp went so narrow (30mm) on the external width of the new 303 Firecrest? If I recall, the original 105 rule came out of Zipp research. They claim that the 303 Firecrest is optimized for aero performance around a 28mm tire — and in their accompanying technical paper make some pretty big aero claims vs. the old Firecrest and even the NSW. But clearly on a 25mm internal almost any tire will exceed the 105 rule. A bit of a head scratcher for me.
Kevin, Not sure if you saw my review of the new 303 Firecrest Disc but I think they went for versatility over first-place performance in any one area. It’s a good all-around and among the better road climbing and gravel wheelsets. But you can’t do everything well so it looks like they sacrificed some external width (and depth) to keep it light for climbing paved and gravel roads. And it’s really too shallow to be an aero wheelset. The ENVE 3.4 AR is similar as a light climber and gravel wheelset but they managed to get the rims a couple mm wider without affecting the weight to make it a better gravel set.
The 4.5 AR is more of an aero/all around wheelset that you can ride with wide tires on without aero penalty but also that absorbs a lot of rough roads. The 5.6 disc (review) is really the best option if aero is your thing and you are ok with 25mm. I find them plenty comfortable enough for me at 150lbs/68kg and 70-75lbs with 25mm tires. You could also ride a 25mm on the front and 28mm on the back with minimal (1-2W?) aero penalty if you wanted more comfort. Steve
The Rule of 105 came from an earlier Zipp engineering leadership team and I’ve been told that they have moved on from that as the dominant design principle. You can see from their Total System Efficiency mantra now that they are trading off a bunch of different design and performance considerations. Steve
Thanks, Steve.
On the 4.5 vs 5.6, as I’m sure you are well aware, Hunt published a couple technical papers over the past year or so that included multiple wind tunnel results for both. With the big caveat that results need to be interpreted with a large degree of caution, I was struct by finding that going from the 4.5 (disc and rim) to the 5.6 only saves you a handful of watts (2-4W). Perhaps more importantly, similar findings also held when comparing mid-depth aero to full on aero wheels of other firms (e.g., Zipp and Roval). Also of note, the 4.5 AR was tested with the old (wider) Pro One TLE rather than the narrower recent version.
In the context of Zipp’s new TSE mantra — where the 4.5 AR would also get all the purported benefits of wide tires, wide internal rims, and hookless design — would it be reasonable to conclude that in a large share of real world riding conditions (less than ideal tarmac), that the 4.5AR (28mm) might actually be faster than the 5.6?
Kevin, a few things.
1) I don’t consider wind tunnel tests of competitive products done by a competitor to be objective (Hunt’s relative lack of engineering expertise and focus on marketing further clouds this picture). Wind tunnel testing has so many variables (speed, yaw angles and weighting, tire choice, wheel on/off bike, etc.) that one could clearly design and run a test or choose from different test protocols that make one product look good and another look bad. Independent testing is worth considering but the same variables can make some wheels look better or worse depending on the testing protocol. (see Hambini vs. the cycling industry.)
2) I would consider the relative performance in wind tunnel testing an experienced company may do of its own products valuable but not the absolute wattage differences. Unless you ride those wheels under the same conditions as in the wind tunnel, and very likely you don’t, there’s just no way to put an absolute wattage difference figure on them that translate to the road. That said, the 5.6 disc is more aero than the 4.5AR based on Enve’s testing but by how much is debatable and potentially not relevant to the kind of riding you do.
3) Zipp’s TSE approach is another one of those proprietary formulations of what matters in determining speed that is hard to independently validate. I like that they incorporate the energy you save (body vibration losses) riding a wider wheelset but who knows how that plays with each of us riding with different fitness levels, ride lengths, road surfaces, human tissue conditions, etc. let alone the simpler considerations of other contact points like how cushiony your bar wraps or how comfortable your shoes are or how much compliance is built into your bike.
There are also some fallacies built into the TSE approach, at least in the way people apply them.
– First, wider tires provide a wide contact patch and lower rolling resistance ONLY if you inflate them to the same tire pressure as the narrower ones you are comparing to and depending on the tire model. Of course, most people don’t inflate a wider tire to the same pressure as a narrower one; they ride a wider tire so they can inflate it to a lower pressure for more comfort.
– Further, a wider tire offers less wind resistance, only if it comes up narrower than the rim per the rule of 105 we’ve talked about earlier. My measurements showed that the Zipp 303 Firecrest Disc 30mm external rim width didn’t measure 105% mounted with four 28mm tubeless tires including the new Schwalbe Pro One TLE and Spech Rapidair that you were interested in and also with Zipp’s own Tangente Speed RT28.
– To net it out, per the TSE equation for the Firecrest, you may save some energy/watts with the wider tire (same as you would with that same wider tire on most any 25mm rim) but you wouldn’t get any more contribution to your speed from lesser rolling resistance (if you lowered the pressure) or wind resistance. You would gain some speed from the lighter weight wheels on 7% plus grades, but that doesn’t happen often or for long unless you are doing a climbing ride. (1K feet/10 miles)
3) Using the same TSE concepts to compare the 4.5AR and 5.6 disc which weigh essentially the same, you’d likely save more energy/watts with lower pressure tires on 4.5AR but get more aero benefits from the 5.6, assuming you picked tires and inflated them to levels that passed the 105 rule on both the 4.5AR and 5.6. Rolling resistance, at aero speeds, would likely matter little between, say a 28mm, 60psi tire on the 4.5AR and the same model 25mm, 70psi tire on the 5.6 disc.
If it were me, I would choose between them based on a lot of situational things – how fast do you ride (favors the more aero wheelset), how long do you ride (favors the more compliant wheel/tire setup), how rough are the roads (favors the more compliant wheel/tire setup), how aggressive a rider are you (favors the 5.6 which has more snap), how competitive do your ride, how wide a wheelset can your bike fit (might matter if it can’t take the AR width), how strong is your back, what kind of condition are you in, how fast do you recover, how much compliance is built into your bike, etc.
More aggressive, younger, competitive, aero focused, fit riders doing hard group rides or races would lean to the 5.6 whereas those who are some, but perhaps not all of those things and ride rougher roads would probably enjoy the 4.5 AR more.
Frankly, you can’t go wrong with either. Ultimately, I’d suggest you go with the wheelset you believe in for whatever combination of rational and emotional reasons because when you do, you will ride more confidently and happier with your choice. That will likely make you ride faster and have more fun than you would, regardless of all the tech distinctions, than if you are riding a wheelset you are unsure about or second-guessing.
It’s about going fast, believing in yourself and gear, and having fun.
Time to climb out of this rabbit hole. Cheers, Steve
Hi Steve,
Wow. Many many thanks for taking the the time to respond and outline so systemically your analysis. I was not expecting such a detailed and thoughtful response.
One of the things that is so frustrating from a consumer standpoint at the moment is the light speed at which wheel design philosophy is changing. Pair that with all the mixed messaging from industry on the benefits of tubeless vs tubed (exhibit A: roval’s recent release of the Rapide and Alpinist CLX), and it’s hard not to feel overwhelmed when contemplating dropping a few thousand loonies (what we call a dollar here in Canada) on a wheelset.
As such, really appreciate you helping us roadies navigate the morass of information being put out there by manufactures.
To close the loop: I ordered the 4.5 AR and upgraded the hub to the new DT 240. So stoked! 🙂 After a few more seasons I may switch over to the 5.6 AR (I assume it will be released by then haha).
Best,
K.
Hi Steve,
Do you have any information about the Fulcrum WIND 40 DB. I have the Racing 500s that came on my Cannondale Synapse and am considering the reasonably priced upgrade.
Thanks,
John
John, I’ve not tested that wheelset. You can see my reviews of other disc brake options here, Steve
Hi Steve- any thoughts on the new Giant SLR1 42mm hookless disc brake wheelset? They’re a good price and seem well made
Charles, I’ve not tested them. Steve
Have you tried the Bora WTO 45? Those look like they would have been a more appropriate option from Campy considering the competitors. Thanks for the great reviews! Always a good read!
Kevin, It’s on my “to review” list for next year. Thanks for reading. Steve
Just wanted to flag that Tour Magazin recently (aero) tested both the new Roval Rapide CLX and DT ARC 1100 DB in their 10/2020 addition. Unclear if all wheels were tested with the same tire (which would be odd, of course), but the Rapide (35mm wide) surprisingly tested almost identical to the ARC 1100 (27mm wide).
Kevin, Thanks. After taking a look at the article, it’s hard to tell what protocol they were using other than the stated -20 to +20 degrees of yaw (no weighting indicated) at 45 kph. From the photos, it looks like they used different tires – a Specialized on the Roval, a Conti (5000 TL?) or a Schwalble Pro One on some of the others, and hard to tell on the ENVE. Tire widths and pressures not indicated. Four of the five wheelsets came within 1.5 watts of each other or about 0.5%. So there’s little difference in the results of what they tested in the way they tested them but hard to know what difference there might be if the tires were optimized for the wheels (e.g. rule of 105).
And that’s just the aero considerations. The other comparative factors they use are stiffness, acceleration, and weight. No mention of compliance, handling, responsiveness, versatility that I’ve found are also important. Steve
Hi Steve,
TOUR’s full testing protocol can be found here:
https://www.tour-magazin.de/service/so_testet_tour/rennrad-test-in-labor-und-auf-der-strasse/a45576.html
You can click through for the aero and wheel specific protocols.
I reached out to the guys at ‘cycles et forme’ (CeF) to see if they had any idea, as they covered both Tour’s wheel test and their test of the new Tarmac SL7. Apparently all wheels other than the Rapide were tested with GP5K. (I assume because spesh requested it?)
http://www.cyclesetforme.fr/largeur-de-roue-ou-va-ton-en-roulement-et-aerodynamisme/
CeF speculated that the front wheel design (massive 35mm external) may have been specifically designed to deal with the very poor aerodynamics of the turbo cotton tire (open tubular leading to boundary layer issues in relation to laminar and more turbulent flows).
Makes a little sense, on the face of it. I’ve seen some data from Tom Anhalt where once you get down to a tiny 21mm turbo (the volcanized version not the cotton, but also a not great aero tire) on the CLX 64, it starts to perform similar to something like a GP4K. In addition, spesh has released data showing that the Rapide actually performs a tad better aero-wise with the turbo cotton compared to the s-works tubeless 2bliss. No idea how aero that tire is, but it certainly can’t be anywhere as poor as an open tubular/cotton sidewall tire.
https://cyclingtips.com/2020/09/specialized-and-roval-have-stopped-investing-in-tubulars-heres-why/
All a bit of mystery once you add in the whole non-tubeless compatible drama.
Cheers,
K.
Kevin, Thanks for the additional info. While all very interesting for nerdy types like you and me and perhaps some of our fellow enthusiasts, we should take some of this with a grain of salt e.g. the Specialized talking points presented in Cycling Tips. We should also recognize that other aspects just aren’t terribly relevant to most enthusiasts e.g. Turbo Cotton tires are very fast wearing race day tires that most enthusiasts aren’t going to ride, many bikes don’t have enough clearance for the 35mm wide Rapide wheelset and its natural deflection between their front forks, and most enthusiasts won’t notice a weight difference less than 100 to 150 grams. For pros, all of this matters. For enthusiasts, it doesn’t until you’ve gotten the most out of your training and technique and even then, perhaps only for those that are also racing at high amateur levels.
I readily admit to getting nerdy in my reviews, for example measuring rim to tire-widths against the rule of 105 for my best tubeless tires review. I went through all of that so readers don’t wreck the aero performance of the deeper wheels we spend so much on by the wrong choice of tire model or width. However, my take on rolling resistance, weight, and aero performance is their differences among the wheels I review in a given category (everyday tubeless tires, climbing wheels, and aero wheels respectively) aren’t significant enough to be a deciding factor when compared to other criteria I outline and evaluate. Cheers, Steve
Hi there,
I already own a DT Swiss ERC 1100 as an all around wheelset and I am currently on the research for a climbing disc wheelset. My budget limits my options to 2.000€. After reading your articles I am between Campagnolo Bora WTO 33 and Zipp 303 Firecrest. The main drawback of Bora WTO 33 is that there is no significant weight difference regarding to DT Swiss that I already have.
1. Do you think that I will notice any difference between these two wheelsets (Bora vs DT Swiss)?
I tend more to Zipp 303 Firecrest because there is a significant weight difference.
2. Which wheelset do you think is better (Bora vs Zipp)?
3. What is your opinion of tubular wheelsets? By choosing a tubular wheelset you can reduce the weight significantly. Campagnolo Bora One 35 weighs only 1285gr.
Thank you in advance,
Paschalis
Paschalis, If you haven’t read it yet, I’d encourage you to read my review of the best lightweight wheels for climbing. In it, I review and compare 4 climbing disc wheelsets and share my view of tubular wheels.
As to your specific questions
1. No, I don’t think you’d feel much of a difference as I noted in my comparative chart in this review.
2. If climbing is your overriding objective, I’d recommend the Zipp 303 Firecrest Disc over the Campagnolo Bora WTO 33 DB, each with tubeless tires. But, as you can see in the post I linked you to above, I think you can do better than either of those at the price of a Bora WTO or DT Swiss ERC if you are looking for a dedicated climbing wheelset.
3. If you are dedicated to climbing and willing to deal with the hassles, risks, and potentially higher rolling resistance (compared to some clincher and tubeless tires) that come with a lighter, tubular wheelset, then tubulars are a way to cut weight.
I would also add that you can improve your climbing performance in other, potentially more significant ways including increasing your FTP and reducing your body mass. More in my review of how to ride faster. Those are also good ways to save a lot of money too! Steve
Hi Steve,
Thank you for your response.
I didn’t mention before that except from the DT Swiss wheelset, I also own a Mavic Cosmic Pro SL UST disc wheelset (it was a present). These two wheelsets have similar specs and I think is better to sell one of them and buy a wheelset with different specs. Thats how I decided to go for a climbing wheelset.
1. I feel that DT swiss wheelset is better than Mavic on the road. What is your opinion?
2. Would make any sense selling Mavic to buy Zipp 303 Firecrest? Or should I stick with the Mavic wheelset?
Thank you in advance,
Paschalis
Have you tried out the Prime Black Edition out of interest? They have very good customer reviews and look good on paper. I know you have previously advised on the Zipp 303S as a better ‘value carbon’ option than the budget brand, direct to consumer options. However, you weren’t over the moon with the 303S and they seem to be marketed as an all rounder rather than an out and out road wheel. The recommended tyre size is 28mm and I’m not sold on hookless on the basis that you will struggle to achieve the ‘105 rule’ if the tyre needs to be 110% the internal rim width.
I am also interested in Scribe wheels, which look good on paper, but are loud and the company are only 2 years old. Winspace Hyper also look interesting.
Sean, I have reviewed earlier rim and disc brake models from Prime (here). While they’ve introduced newer models since then, the basic characteristics of the Prime, and many other of what I call “value-carbon” wheelsets sold direct by “Branders” and “Manufacturers” I wrote about in two reviews (here and here) are much the same – they don’t perform near the level of the better carbon wheels along one or more of the dimensions that matter – stiffness, comfort, acceleration, aero/crosswind, etc. The specs and prices are attractive (and the marketing is often very good) and they clearly serve the needs of cyclists who can’t and don’t want to spend the money or don’t ride at a level to justify the expense of a higher performance carbon wheelset.
It sounds like the 303 S isn’t for you and may not be for many riders. Perhaps you can find some better options in the value-carbon category that fit your budget and performance needs. Best, Steve
Steve, quick (random) Q: did the AR 4.5s actually weight 1518g with rim tape on your scales? If so that’s pretty impressive given the claimed weight! Cheers, K.
Kevin, Yes, I tested a few years ago with the DT Swiss 240 hub which they don’t offer anymore. The claimed weight with that hub was 1506 and my weight was 1518. Tape is about 10g per wheel extra (one wrap only with ENVE tape). I will update the chart to reflect this. So probably still under 1600g with the ENVE alloy hub that replaced it and tape. That’s pretty light for their depth and one reason they climb relatively well. In my experience with a half dozen ENVE wheelsets, they measure +/- 10-15 grams their claims. Steve
Many thanks Steve! Appreciate you taking the time to answer questions. I assume that the weight totals do not include tubeless stems, in your great posts?
Have you seen the revolver XW wheel range? A 45mm deep wheel with sub 1500g claimed weight tubeless ready with hooked rims at £1300… looks pretty ideal for this category (and me!)
Hi Tommy, Thanks for the heads up. Their depth/width/weight spec isn’t unique and the price is perhaps 10-20% below better known/established brands. Warranty (18 mos) is shorter than most. No info on who designs, makes, tests them, and where to get sales/service support. Seem like more of a regional/country-focused brand which is fine but ITKC readers are all over so would be harder for most to get support without sending them back. They may be great wheels or not but these are the kinds of considerations I have to make before deciding to buy/test wheels from the many companies out there selling them. Steve